Johne's?

[Sheepshape]

I think I have Trouble.

One of my pregnant ewes who has always been thin has become really emaciated. She has loose bowels....always has had, but now things are much worse. Her fleece is sparse. I think she probably has Johne's disease.

Currently she is indoors with another ewe who has had a tooth problem. She is due to have twins in something under 5 weeks.

OH wants to have her culled NOW. She has twins inside, so I am not happy for this.

The Plan....unsure I have a coherent one....but I'd like for her to have her babies. So she's indoors, being supplementary fed and protected from the elements. She is and has been potentially infective for some while.

Not a good place to be this close to lambing.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

Have you had her tested?

 

[farmerjan]

You say she "always has had" loose bowels.... how long is "always" ? When an animal gets Johne's, and it is in the stage of loose bowels/runny manure, they don't usually hang on that long. If she had it say last year, it is more than likely not Johne's.... an event like lambing will usually trigger it and they will go down hill from there. Wouldn't breed back either. It is the "non-symptom" stage that can last for years, but once "triggered" can and will cause the animal to go down hill much faster.
The last thing you want is for the lambs to suck her. That is one way the virus is spread and will become dormant in the lambs systems.
If you aren't willing or able to get her tested for Johne's, you really need to either worm her good, see if that helps, or else put her down.
Does she eat good? That is one thing they will do, eat right up until they can't get up... they always have an appetite. I would test her.

 

[Baymule]

You have already received good advice. I have nothing to add except to say I am sorry that she is ill, from whatever she may have, and that you may be faced with an unpleasant choice.

 

[Sheepshape]

She's not been tested....and she's not the typical case. She 7 or 8....so an old girl. Her bowels have been loose for over 2 years....so not like the typical Johne's who just get the diarrhoea right at the end. Her bowels have actually improved since she is indoors and eating more supplements.

She's been wormed and fluked regularly, but will get a good dose of Moxodectin as there's been some benzimidazole resistance not too far from here.

I had a presumed Johne's 3-4 years ago, and,like her, she's bright and eats fairly well.

So she could have Johne's or just possibly thyroid overactivity. Vets advice was 'assume it is Johne's'.

It seems that trans-placental transfer is uncommon, so I plan to let her have the lambs (if she is fit enough to do that) and to bottle feed them.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

How costly is the testing? Here, it is very inexpensive. I personally wouldn’t just “assume” anything. But that’s just me. I’d do the testing.

Years ago we brought in a doe. Her stool was never never consistent. Sometimes berries other times it was “dog log” and sometimes mild scours. It drove me crazy.
Not parasites and not Johnes. She had the most sensitive stomach. ANYTHING would give her loose stools.

It turned out she must’ve had some sort of gut infection. High doses of Pen G for over a week ended up fixing it. The doe always has the nice berries.

Not saying this is your ewe’s problem, just what we went through.

Has her fecal been checked for giardia?

 

[Sheepshape]

A follow up on this old girl. She produced two huge lambs overnight and has enough milk for six lambs. She looks very skinny now, but remains her overactive, overeating, cheerful self......utterly unfazed by the birth. I discussed her again with the vet who said "Can't be Johne's....I think you're right about her thyroid......I'll blood test her when she's reared her lambs" Cindy ( that's her name ) will need to continue with her enormous rations up until then!

 

[Baymule]

That sounds like good news.

 

[Sheepshape]

That sounds like good news.

The best! I hadn't planned to keep her beyond this year, but Johne's 'in the midst' wasn't something that anyone wants. meanwhile, Cindy is begging for yet more food.

 

[babsbag]

Good news that it doesn't sound like Johne's as that isn't something you want in your flock.

Sometimes these animals will be our undoing. I have an old goat that just had twins. First she wouldn't settle, kept short cycling despite the normal "fixes" for that so I just let her go and some point she stopped. I figured she was just old. Then a few weeks ago I let them all out on the spring grass and she got scours, horrible scours. I expected it to clear in a few days...it didn't. So I finally gave her some Bio-Sponge and some Scour Halt in case it was e-coli and just in time... she kidded the next day. Stools were better for two days until I gave her some grain...scours returned. Poor girl eats and chews her cud and tries her best to feed her kids but she just can't do it. I pulled one already and will start the other one a bottle tomorrow. She is such a good mom, I thought I would let her try. No idea why she has scours but the grain sure wasn't the right thing to give her.