Keeping weight on horse, possibly new horse feed? Suggestions?

[Horsiezz]

At my boarding barn they feed a scoop of 12% Stock and Stable pelleted sweet feed, and 2 flakes of hay morning and night. Horses are let in in the morning, eat, get let back out, get let back in to eat again, and go back out. I've been told that is high protien hay, and the horses do good on it. I also feed a scoop of VitaFlex Hardkeeper supplement to her twice a day. but since she is a performance horse and gets rode very often and competes, I noticed her loosing weight, especially now when its getting colder in Ohio. Now that im in a better financial situation I would like to pay the extra a month to buy a different feed to feed her, because this sweet feed isnt doing the trick! Shes losing weight on her withers and her hips are sinking in. It makes me pretty upset because I like my horse to stay in top condition! What feeds do you reccommend? Any other tips to keep weight on her(im also having the same problem with my Tennessee Walker gelding)? The other horses at my barn are fine, its just mine and a couple others.
Also has anyone with miniatures tried the new Purina Miniature Horse & Pony feed? I am showing my miniature stallion next year and I'd like to get him on a good feed as well.
Thanks everyone!!

 

[rwbwfarm]

I give my rescue mare (and my older STB gelding ) Blue Seal Sentinel SR and beet pulp pellets (she didn't care for the shreds). They also make other performance feeds - LT is a good one. She was very underweight when I got her in May & after trying a few different feeds, this one is the best. She's only 9 yrs. but it has extras in it that help her out. I know Smart Pak has a weight gain supplement that has gotten really good reviews. I thought about putting her on it as she also has heaves which didn't help with weight gain. Now that they have been under control, she's really gaining weight! I tried Purina with them & she had a major allergic reaction - wouldn't stop itching. I don't have minis so don't know about that food but none of our critters ever cared for Purina. I personally try to stay away from sweet/textured feeds as I don't care for all the molasses in it (on a side note - the sweet feed I used to give my dairy goats make the milk literally taste like rancid molasses after 2 days ).

 

[goodhors]

.

 

[currycomb]

i used to board horses, and worked for a trainer or too. you cannot just go throw a couple flakes of hay to a horse and expect that to be enough. every horse should be fed according to its own needs. it sounds like maybe you should try to keep your 2 horses together and feed more hay rather than grain. i also do not like a feed containing molassas. purina strategy might work, contains more fat, less starch, but i would try increassing hay consumption.

 

[Horsiezz]

i used to board horses, and worked for a trainer or too. you cannot just go throw a couple flakes of hay to a horse and expect that to be enough. every horse should be fed according to its own needs. it sounds like maybe you should try to keep your 2 horses together and feed more hay rather than grain. i also do not like a feed containing molassas. purina strategy might work, contains more fat, less starch, but i would try increassing hay consumption.

I heard alot of good things about stragety. I might try that. We have 4 round bales being delivered this weekend since its getting colder and the pasture is horrible so Im hopign this will help as well. For extra hay you have to pay extra so I plan on doing that for the winter. The board is cheap, its close to home, and the manager is a long time friend so thats why I stay there.

 

[Horsiezz]

My friend has her horses on Nutrena LifeDesign Prime. Does anyone else have experience with that? And would blanketing help keep weight on in the cold fall/winter since there not using as much energy to stay warm? Just wondering. Im also considering going back to my old supplement, DAC Bloom. Its more expensive than the VitaFlex Hardkeeper(about $10 more) im using now but it works really good. I just don't know, theres so many choices. I just want whats best for my horses!

 

[LauraM]

At my boarding barn they feed a scoop of 12% Stock and Stable pelleted sweet feed,

How much is a scoop?? What size scoop?? Big scoop,, small scoop, just barely full scoop, mounded up scoop??? There is NO WAY of know the nutrition in a "scoop." You must know how much the feed weighs that is being fed to the horse. How many pounds is the horse getting? That is the only way to know how many calories the horse is getting. Feed labels are in pounds. The nutritional information is always in weight. You therefore have to weigh what you are feeding the horse in order to actually know what sort of nutrition it is getting.

Now, as to what sort of feed......remember that cereal grains provide ENERGY far more efficiently than they provide weight (fat). Therefore, you give cereal grains (oats, corn, barley, etc) and feeds based on them, for energy to perform as you may need the horse to perform for competitions (this is why a "backyard" horse should not have feeds with cereal grains in them, they don't NEED that sort of energy!). If you need to increase a horse's weight, you want to provide sources of fat. Fat sources are FAR more efficient for weight gain but they don't provide the necessary energy that some upper level competition horses might need to stay competitive. In those cases, you would combine grains with fat sources, if you have a competition horse that is not holding weight.

For something like the commercial mixed feeds, they have a mix of cereal grains and fortify them with vitamins and minerals and protein (which is what the 12% refers to), but the fortification of those feeds (particularly when you see the protein as low as 12%) is very light, so if you read the bag, you'll see that it recommends the horse be given generally 6-8 pounds of feed daily, just to meet minimum recommended daily nutrition numbers. This is FAR more cereal grains than most horses need! But if you feed less than that, then the horse does not get all the vitamins, minerals, and protein it may need, particularly if it is a hard keeper or is being worked. Even a horse in medium work often doesn't need the energy provided by 6-8 pounds of sweet feeds, yet they won't keep weight on because they are not having their daily nutritional needs met.

Fat sources are things like rice bran, whole flax seed (which also provides high-quality protein), corn oil (though it does not provide any other nutrition as the rice bran or flax seed does, it will put weight on), beet pulp, ect.

Again, you must weigh the feed to make sure you are giving adequate amounts.

Now, all THAT being said..........horses FIRST AND FOREMOST need forage. NO CONCENTRATE FEED you give the horse will keep weight on it if it does not get enough forage. How much forage is enough depends on the horse.

So, to sum it up, you first need to give the horse free choice hay. This means hay in front of it at all times. As much as it will eat. Seriously, that is critical. This is where the bulk of your money should be spent. Buy extra hay if you need, but start here.

Then, you should give a ration balancer, like Buckeye's Gro-N-Win, or Foxden Equine's LinPro, VitaFlex's Accel, or Purina's Born to Win, ect. There are a lot out there and pretty much every company makes one now.

If the horse needs energy to perform at a competitive level, you can add in whole oats (the "safest" cereal grain for horses) and increasing the amount as needed. You can even use your current 12% feed, since at a "scoop," it's probably not more than a couple of pounds.

Lastly, add a fat source if needed, like rice bran or whole flax seed.

If you want to read up on equine nutrition, a really marvelous book is The Horse Nutrition Handbook By Melyni Worth

 

[Horsiezz]

At my boarding barn they feed a scoop of 12% Stock and Stable pelleted sweet feed,

How much is a scoop?? What size scoop?? Big scoop,, small scoop, just barely full scoop, mounded up scoop??? There is NO WAY of know the nutrition in a "scoop." You must know how much the feed weighs that is being fed to the horse. How many pounds is the horse getting? That is the only way to know how many calories the horse is getting. Feed labels are in pounds. The nutritional information is always in weight. You therefore have to weigh what you are feeding the horse in order to actually know what sort of nutrition it is getting.

Now, as to what sort of feed......remember that cereal grains provide ENERGY far more efficiently than they provide weight (fat). Therefore, you give cereal grains (oats, corn, barley, etc) and feeds based on them, for energy to perform as you may need the horse to perform for competitions (this is why a "backyard" horse should not have feeds with cereal grains in them, they don't NEED that sort of energy!). If you need to increase a horse's weight, you want to provide sources of fat. Fat sources are FAR more efficient for weight gain but they don't provide the necessary energy that some upper level competition horses might need to stay competitive. In those cases, you would combine grains with fat sources, if you have a competition horse that is not holding weight.

For something like the commercial mixed feeds, they have a mix of cereal grains and fortify them with vitamins and minerals and protein (which is what the 12% refers to), but the fortification of those feeds (particularly when you see the protein as low as 12%) is very light, so if you read the bag, you'll see that it recommends the horse be given generally 6-8 pounds of feed daily, just to meet minimum recommended daily nutrition numbers. This is FAR more cereal grains than most horses need! But if you feed less than that, then the horse does not get all the vitamins, minerals, and protein it may need, particularly if it is a hard keeper or is being worked. Even a horse in medium work often doesn't need the energy provided by 6-8 pounds of sweet feeds, yet they won't keep weight on because they are not having their daily nutritional needs met.

Fat sources are things like rice bran, whole flax seed (which also provides high-quality protein), corn oil (though it does not provide any other nutrition as the rice bran or flax seed does, it will put weight on), beet pulp, ect.

Again, you must weigh the feed to make sure you are giving adequate amounts.

Now, all THAT being said..........horses FIRST AND FOREMOST need forage. NO CONCENTRATE FEED you give the horse will keep weight on it if it does not get enough forage. How much forage is enough depends on the horse.

So, to sum it up, you first need to give the horse free choice hay. This means hay in front of it at all times. As much as it will eat. Seriously, that is critical. This is where the bulk of your money should be spent. Buy extra hay if you need, but start here.

Then, you should give a ration balancer, like Buckeye's Gro-N-Win, or Foxden Equine's LinPro, VitaFlex's Accel, or Purina's Born to Win, ect. There are a lot out there and pretty much every company makes one now.

If the horse needs energy to perform at a competitive level, you can add in whole oats (the "safest" cereal grain for horses) and increasing the amount as needed. You can even use your current 12% feed, since at a "scoop," it's probably not more than a couple of pounds.

Lastly, add a fat source if needed, like rice bran or whole flax seed.

If you want to read up on equine nutrition, a really marvelous book is The Horse Nutrition Handbook By Melyni Worth

Thank you, this was VERY informational!

 

[LauraM]

You're welcome.

I rule of thumb when figuring out where to start with hay.........an easy keeper, doing no work, needs at least 1% of it's body weight in hay per day. So if a horse weighs 1000 lbs, it will need at least 10 pounds of good quality hay per day, just to stand there. A hard keeper or one who is working constantly, can need at least 2.5% of it's body weight in good quality hay (25 lbs of hay). If your hay is stemmy (late cut) or of a less nutrition type of grass, the horse may need more than those numbers.

These numbers are just to MAINTAIN the CURRENT weight. You'll need to feed more for a horse to gain weight.........that's why, for weight gain, free choice access to hay is best.

However, when buying hay, it's helpful to have some sort of figure in mind.

Therefore, you'll need to weigh several bales (or ask whomever makes the hay how much the bales typically weigh....they will know) so you know how much of that bale to feed. Alternatively, you can weigh yourself, then fill a hay net and weigh yourself holding the haynet to get an average idea of how much the hay will fit in the net. Of course, you'll also need to use a weight tape measure on your horse.

Increasing the concentrates, without providing adequate forage (hay) will almost guarantee ulcers, particularly in a competition animal......and often will cause other problems.

 

[zzGypsy]

one more thing to consider in addition to all the good info already on here... adding carbo/sugar based feeds (sweet feeds, corn, oats) can cause issues with many horses - it ups their calorie intake, however it increases the risk of colic, founder, tieing up. if your horse is getting plenty of forage and is still working off the lbs, you may want to add fat. this increases the calorie intake without the risks associated with carbos/sweet feeds.

you can use any liquid vegetable oil, corn, soy, canolla, peanut, sunflower seed - whatever is cheapest in your area (we shop at the restaurant supply store and buy it in 35lb chubs.) don't use "winterized" oils, but any others are fine. you can add up to 1 cup per 1000 lbs of horse. you'll need to make this a gradual progression (start with 1/4 cup and work up slowly) just like any feed change for horses. we mix the oil into lightly soaked alfalfa pellets or hay cubes, but you can pour it on their feed, or on beet pulp or whatever you find works for you. the only down side - some horses don't like it and don't get used to it, and it WILL get on everything you wear. other fat-adding alternatives include rice bran or black oil sunflower seeds (whole)... liquid oil is cheapest, and our horses would drink it with a straw if they had the proper lips to do so, so that's what we use.

there's some evidence that EPSM (thought to be just a draft horse issue) is considerably more common (and often mis-diagnosed) in high-performance horses that previously thought. switching to a fat-based energy program from a starch/carbo/sugar based one changes the way the muscles convert food to fuel. this process takes 3-6 months (to change the muscle metabolism) but once complete can make huge differences in some horses in how much work a horse can do, and how comfortable he is doing it, as well as greatly improve weight maintenance and ability to build and keep muscle mass. there is some evidence also suggesting that horses on high-fat low-carbo diets are less likely to founder if they accidentally get into the grain bin.

anyway, the only way to know for sure if your horse has some EPSM issues is a muscle biopsy, but the clues that indicate a horse may have an issue are weight loss on a diet that should be sufficient (having ruled out worms, teeth issues, etc.), muscle loss, stiffness, muscle soreness, tieing up, slow to warmup or cold backed, short stride in the hind end, low hock flexion, and a stiff "pony gait" in the back end at a trot. the first sign most folks see is weight loss, particularly in the hind quarters and over the loin, that doesn't improve with increased feed.

at any rate, even if your horse has none of these symptoms, adding fat will up the calories without health risks, so it's hard to go too far wrong with it.

and besides, it'll put a nice shne on their coat as well.