Laundry list of questions pertaining to my baby goats.

[Carla D]

Hello Everyone,

I have a not so short list of questions that I’m struggling to find answers for. Some of them may sound odd. But, we really do try to improve the lives of all of our animals that are in our lives whether they are in our home or on the farm. So here goes.

1. Does anyone use the Burdizzo method of castration? I like that it’s bloodless, so not much risk of infection, they seem to recover pretty quickly, it’s also a method that I believe my husband and I could use not only on the goats, but possibly even a baby piglet, which we are soon to be up to our necks in. And then they don’t have a dangling, constricted piece of flesh hanging off of them rotting and potentially stinking.

2. Can a goat be trained to walk on a leash? If so, what type of collar do we use to start this?

3. I’m looking for more ways to bond with my goats as winter is approaching and I’m in the early stages of weening them. They are down to 2-20oz bottles. One morning and evening, and a 12-14oz bottle in the afternoon.

4. It’s been suggested that I start training the boys on a goat stand for their grooming. Is it possible to build or buy one for their young size now that will also accommodate them as big goats?

5. Do goats typically shiver when they are this young? They are roughly four weeks and 3-6 days old now. Our barn has not gotten cold enough for their water to freeze at night yet, so it’s at least 33-35 degrees in there at all times. Why would they be shivering?

6. Do all goats develop wattles? I only have one one goat with them. I really love them and think they are very goatly. I was going to use him as a stud/buck for breeding purposes because he’s such a handsome and sweet boy. He is also exactly what I think of when someone mentions the perfect goat image.

7. How can I enrich their lives and time while they are in the barn this winter? We don’t have an outside area set up for them yet. We thought we might have until spring to build one. I don’t think they will be able to wait that long.

8. Could bringing 2-3 goats outside at a time to play, graze, run around a little (with close supervision) be a good idea? Or do we need to at least set up a small area with a few pieces of hog wire panels to contain them? The panels are 3’ tall and 15-18 feet long. Would the panels work in the short term?

9. Is there something I can add to their water to encourage them to drink more? I’m not convinced that they are drinking as much as they should be. They may possibly be drinking between ½-¾ of a gallon per day. I doubt that is enough for the eight of them to be drinking. I already change the water out every day and hose out their bowl to keep it clean. Is there anything more that I could be doing?

I think that covers all of my questions for now. You don’t have to answer them all, but if I could at least get 2-3 questions answered I’d have a direction to head toward. Thank you, Carla D

 

[Southern by choice]

1. I have heard good things about the burdizzo however you have to make sure you hear the crunch. BTW- all 3 methods are bloodless (Banding, cutting, burdizzo)

2. Yes, we do two things here... for pet babies we will use a dog harness and this helps let them cut use to it. Our other goats are shown so they just have a lead no collar. All our goats have coolars but we don't use those to walk them. This is a baby Nigerian that my husband took to work. Much easier on the neck and they get use to it then they graduate to an actual lead.

3. Sounds like you are doing fine.

4. You can build a wooden stanchion but the head opening will need to be adjusted as babies slip out of anything. We have metal stanchions and use a pool noodle for babies headsand necks so they can't slide out. Bucks are huge so it will need to be strong and long. Our bucks at adult hood are far too powerful for a stanchion so we just hook them to the fence and trim hooves that way. We have well behaved bucks but if they decide to put up a fight over something they can take the whole stanchion with them. Babies and smaller bucks are fine but 200-300 lb goats... nope.

5. No, they should not be shivering. They are cold. Lots of straw for bedding and a rumin full of hay will help with warmth.

6. Some have wattles, some don't.

7. Tagging @Hens and Roos as lives in Wisconsin and understands the weather there, she can give great advice. IMO keeping them locked up with no sunshine (vit D3) and confined will just cause pneumonia and they will not adjust well with temp changes.

8. A "playpen " area is a great idea. Not sure if 3 feet will be adequate. Our Nigerian kids can go over that. Taking them outside is a great idea. Being bottle babies they will stay close anyway but it will give them a chance to explore. I agree with only 2 at a time if no fencing.

9. they aren't drinking much water because you are feeding them milk 3x day. At this age I would be doing a 34oz bottle am and 34 oz bottle pm. Lots of hay as they need hay to develop properly. As far as the water they will drink more after minimizing bottles. Start putting out free choice minerals. Minerals have salt and that makes them drink more.

 

[Hens and Roos]

Welcome glad you joined us! @Southern by choice gave you some good information to work with. You are north west of us by about 3 hours or so!

How big of an area do they have in your barn? Do you have a shelter within that area (think calf hutch) that they can get into to help share warmth given that they are shivering? Given that we are coming into winter, it's important to get their bodies adjusted for the cold months ahead.

If you can build a temporary fence outside so they can go outside with you and play that would help as well.

Keeping hay out all the time for them will allow them to start nibbling and eating it as the kids with their dam start exploring what she is eating as they get older.

 

[Bayleaf Meadows]

Is there someone near you who bands their bucklings? They may be able to tell you/show you more about the process and possibly ease your concerns about "rotting and potentially stinking" flesh hanging off them. My experience is that there is a gradual drying while the testicles are resorbed and a healed scab area when the empty skin falls off. No smell, no mess. My goats display some discomfort at first but shortly following, it seems that there is little pain due to the lack of blood flow and a resulting numbness.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

I’m in the early stages of weening them. They are down to 2-20oz bottles. One morning and evening, and a 12-14oz bottle in the afternoon.

They are roughly four weeks and 3-6 days old now.

I don't know that anyone caught this, but these babies aren't anywhere near ready for weaning. They should be on milk for 12-16 weeks at a minimum if these are standard sized goats. 54 oz of milk is not near enough for a growing buckling. I'll have to go back in my notes and see how much we were feeding at that age. I know some of our babies were eating about a gallon of milk/day. While yours don't need that much, I would certainly want to see them eating more. How much do they weigh? You want them to gain 10-15lbs a month.

Do you have any high quality hay available? They should be nibbling on hay and pellets now. Our kids love beet pulp and it encourages them to eat.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

As our babies are growing, we often let them out in the yard to run and play. All of ours follow us like puppies so I don't worry about them running off. The panels are a good idea, though cattle panels are less expensive and taller.

 

[OneFineAcre]

You can't use a burdizzo on piglets. The testicles are too tight to the body.
We band ours. We have found it to be the easiest method and we have used them all. No stinking flesh. That's an internet legend. Don't believe everything on the internet.

Yes they can be trained to walk on a leash. Get the cheap collars with the plastic snap together pieces. That way if their collar gets caught on something the snap will break.

GW is correct. It's way to early to wean.\

We never trained our boys to get on the milk stand. Food keeps their interest.


Wattles are genetic. Not all have them.

 

[Carla D]

Welcome glad you joined us! @Southern by choice gave you some good information to work with. You are north west of us by about 3 hours or so!

How big of an area do they have in your barn? Do you have a shelter within that area (think calf hutch) that they can get into to help share warmth given that they are shivering? Given that we are coming into winter, it's important to get their bodies adjusted for the cold months ahead.

If you can build a temporary fence outside so they can go outside with you and play that would help as well.

Keeping hay out all the time for them will allow them to start nibbling and eating it as the kids with their dam start exploring what she is eating as they get older.

Hello Hens and Roos,
I believe their area in the barn is 10’x12’-14’ I think. It has solid wood walls that are 6’tallin most spots but is as tall as 7’ in one corner. It’s a really drafty old poleshed. It has a few holes in the walls and several leaks in the roof which will either be fixed this fall or in the spring. We have tried really hard to either repair or keep closed the five doors on it. There doesn’t seem to be any leaks in the roof above their area either. There is an almost 4’x4’x3’ tall wooden crate that we have also closed up and there is a hole in the roof of it so our heat lamp can warm them up in. The lamp is on nonstop from 1-1.5 hours and off for 30 minute cycles to try and promote them to grow their thick wooly undercoat and to keep that light from being on nonstop.

I’m pretty sure we will have their “playpen” finished today so they can go outside for a while everyday that it’s fairly nice out. I think this area is going to be about 7’x10’-12’ with a small little corner where they can huddle into and get out of the rain frthat may fall onto their heads this time of year. They will probably be out there from 4-6 hours each day.

There are two covered baskets which have a mixture of grass hay, alfalfa/orchard hay, and some Timothy hay in. I will have to fill these baskets 2-3 times a day as they are eating it really good, all three different hays. They have a mixture of pellets as well. 3 parts medicated goat meat pellets, 1 part alfalfa pellets, and 1 part calf manna performance pellets. I also have a small amount of goat minerals from manna pro. The last three days I’ve been putting a gallon mixture of hot water with about 3/5c Apple cider vinegar to peak their interest. I think their water volume has increased quite a bit these last three days. But, I’m thinking I need to start cutting back on their ACV. I question whether it is good for them or not. There is also about three gallons of cold water from our outdoor hydrant of well water.

I sure do love the waddles. I’m wondering if anyone trims the long beards that goats grow naturally. That is the only part about goats that I’m not so excited to see develop as they get older.


Am I making the proper corrections to the goat regimens I provide them?

I’m trying really hard to learn the things that are important for this a good start to their lives.
Carla D

 

[Carla D]

Is there someone near you who bands their bucklings? They may be able to tell you/show you more about the process and possibly ease your concerns about "rotting and potentially stinking" flesh hanging off them. My experience is that there is a gradual drying while the testicles are resorbed and a healed scab area when the empty skin falls off. No smell, no mess. My goats display some discomfort at first but shortly following, it seems that there is little pain due to the lack of blood flow and a resulting numbness.

This is really good to know. Actually, I used to be a nurse by occupation. It just seemed to me that is a potential result of the banding process. My husband has banded many calves in the past and is comfortable doing it. I’ve also watched about a dozen videos on the procedure. I’ve never had any experience with banding. I’ve learned that we need to avoid their nipples that could be close to their scrotum. It’s a procedure I’m pretty sure I could handle doing myself. My only concern is if I’d be strong enough to squeeze the bander and then strong enough to manually release one of the bands myself before releasing all of the rest of the band on the device. My hand strength is not as strong as it used to be. I honestly don’t believe everything I see or read on the internet. Actually I tend to discount most of the information as not quite the whole truth. I will usually view at least ten more videos or sites so I can develop my own opinion. But, I haven’t always been that way. I learned to do that after I discovered there is a whole lot of different ideas, opinions, and some pure falseness on the internet. But I really did appreciate the reminder you gave me about many things floating around on the internet.

 

[Carla D]

I don't know that anyone caught this, but these babies aren't anywhere near ready for weaning. They should be on milk for 12-16 weeks at a minimum if these are standard sized goats. 54 oz of milk is not near enough for a growing buckling. I'll have to go back in my notes and see how much we were feeding at that age. I know some of our babies were eating about a gallon of milk/day. While yours don't need that much, I would certainly want to see them eating more. How much do they weigh? You want them to gain 10-15lbs a month.

Do you have any high quality hay available? They should be nibbling on hay and pellets now. Our kids love beet pulp and it encourages them to eat.

Thank you so much! I’ve been questioning I’ve been giving them enough formula or not. The “commercial” business I bought these little guys from gave me the impression that they only fed them twice a day as newborns. And the amount was pretty limited. Actually I was pretty appalled at that frequency and amount of formula they told me I would have to feed them. As a mom I knew that as they rational. Besides, if they were dam raised they would probably have full access to a teat anytime they wanted and until they were full. I figured that would be at least for the first several weeks. For the first ten days I gave them as much as they wanted, every few hours. It wasn’t around the clock however. My little girl has school so I can’t be waking her up every couple of hours to get ready to go to the farm and feed them around the clock. Plus my husband typically works the night shift so he couldn’t do it overnight himself. They have all survived except the little Nubian which made it to three weeks of age. That little guy struggled from the moment it got to the farm. It was a very slow eater, couldn’t regulate his temperature even with a heat lamp on him. He even spent several nights in our apartment, which was against our lease. But I needed to check on him that frequently. I actually slept with him in my bed under an electric blanket and on my chest for three of those nights. He ended up developing pneumonia and became very dehydrated. I even took him to the vet twice. The second time they wanted to keep him overnight so they could try to help him regulate his body temperature. They had him in an oxygen cage wearing a heated goat goat with IV fluids. He seemed to be looking a little better so they tried bottle feeding him. But he died in the arms of a vet personnel later that afternoon. After the ten days I had read that they should be fed about 12-14oz every six hours. I still found that amount of formula was probably pretty light. So I let them drink up to 20oz every six hours hours. Most of them drank nearly 18 ounces of the formula. But after 3 weeks I was supposed to give them a maximum of three bottles a day that did not exceed 20oz. This is almost half way into the fifth week and they still seem super hungry at 60oz a day. But according to the feeding schedule I’d been following they should be down to two 20oz bottles per day until they are 12 weeks old. I still don’t agree with that amount of formula per day. So I was going to go another week or two at 60oz per day and then take away about half of the afternoon bottle only for a couple of weeks and very slowly taper them off that way. That would take me until about 16-18 weeks to be fully weaned. My motherly instincts and common sense tells me that dropping down to two 20oz bottles per day is completely ludacris. So if someone can actually find me a better/more appropriate feeding schedule please give it to me. The 20oz bottles I feel are just about right since a couple of them never drink the entire 20oz bottle. But there are a few of them, about 4 of them that are constantly trying to get more formula than I give them. I really want to give them more, but I’m not sure it’s more volume that they need or more feedings per day. I could really use some guidance on this. I will try and post the feeding schedule I’ve been trying to follow as well. They are definitely growing. They smallest one has to be 10-12 pound where the biggest ones probably weigh close to 15-16 pounds. That seems to me that they are growing at a fairly appropriate rate. But, again I’m not convinced that’s enough growth as well for 4-4.5 weeks of age. I’m really curious about others feeding schedule. They have had complete access to free feed hay, pellets, and all of the clean water they wanted since day 10. Most of them explored and nibbled on it right away. Last night ivediscovered that they are probably eating a pretty well. They are eating at least a pint worth of pellets per day, 4-5 huge hands full of the different hays, and they are eating a very small amount of goat minerals. They probably are drinking 1.5-3 gallons of the ACV water combination I’ve been giving the last few days, only the last three days as I’ve been really hesitant to add anything to their water anyways. I can’t be doing too badly, am I as far as their feeding at 4-4.5 weeks with what is being offered to them. Am I?