Lespediza Hay-Worms.

[OneFineAcre]

We had Mcmasters fecal counts done on the herd a couple weeks ago.

Tested 13 goats at a state lab, basically all except our Jrs. and kids.

Results:
4 goats 0 eggs/gram
4 goats 50 eggs/gram
2 goats 150 eggs/gram
2 goats 400 eggs/gram
1 goat 750 eggs/gram

Only worms observed: Trichostrongylus which is a Gastrointestinal round worm ( in Nematode family I believe)

We know the Pasture/Parasite specialist at NC State Meat Goat unit. Their philosophy is they do not worm if count is less than 1000 eggs/gram (but, they have a serious issue with drug resistant worms)

Our Vet says he would normally recommend worming if count is over 500 eggs/gram.

We are a dry lot, we have no pasture we are all hay and feed. Normally feed Coastal Bermuda hay free choice with grain supplement and Alfalfa pellets/Shredded Beat pulp/Alfalfa hay for lactating does or animals that need conditioning.

We know all except 3 have never had anything other than Safeguard. The three we aren't sure of are a 0 count, and the two 400 counts

Our vet suggested that since we are dry lot our goal should be to be worm free.

We have a number of does who were bred within the last month.

He recommend we feed Lespediza Hay for a month and give each goat a teaspoon of food grade DE mixed with feed ( Diamatacheous Earth )

Had 50 bales of Lespediza delivered today. It's a legume hay, not a grass hay. I've seen it called the "poor man's alfalfa". It does not have as much calcium as alfalfa.

I read a study and apparently it is high in "tanins" which is what helps with worms. In the study they purposely exposed boars to a variety of GI worms. Control group was fed Coastal Bermuda while the others were fed Lespedezia. Did counts at end and counts were lower in those fed Lespedezia. Also, check stomachs after slaughter and fewer adult worms observered.

I guess I'll let you know in a month or so how it turns out.

 

[WhiteMountainsRanch]

Awesome, can't wait to see your results. Thank you for posting this!

 

[OneFineAcre]

Awesome, can't wait to see your results. Thank you for posting this!

Your welcome. I debated with myself on posting this. There are some very outspoken opinions on this site about worming.

We got they hay.

I read that they call Lespedezia hay the "poor man's alfalfa". Well let me tell you how poor he is. He is so poor that he had to walk 5 miles to school, barefooted, uphill both ways poor.

They are both legumes. Similarity ends there.

Goats seem to like it though.

 

[Pearce Pastures]

I would be interested too. Certain foods can have the ability to reduce how effectively parasites reproduce/thrive and it would be interesting to see how this work. Wish you were just doing one variable though (either the hay or DE so a better conclusion could be made about what helped the most).

And as far as saying people here have very outspoken opinions, I think that phrasing is a bit rudely worded. It is like talking badly about someone while they are standing right there.

 

[Southern by choice]

We have this growing on our property... it is great!

Glad you posted this.

Where did you get yours? At the workshop I went to, seed is $200 for 50 lbs and out of stock apparently for the year.

There is more about this here...

http://www.sheepandgoat.com/ACSRPC/Resources/sericea.html

Thing is it isn't really a de-wormer.... Dr. L went into great detail and showed slides etc.

You are right about strong opinions, but in the end people always feel strongly about what they are doing. Insecure people will feel threatened when others do something different and they are usually the ones to disrespect a differing opinion. Somewhere along the line people can often forget to "respectfully" disagree. I really think people should use the management practices that work for them... if it isn't working then there is a problem. There is more than one way to manage goats!

 

[OneFineAcre]

I would be interested too. Certain foods can have the ability to reduce how effectively parasites reproduce/thrive and it would be interesting to see how this work. Wish you were just doing one variable though (either the hay or DE so a better conclusion could be made about what helped the most).

And as far as saying people here have very outspoken opinions, I think that phrasing is a bit rudely worded. It is like talking badly about someone while they are standing right there.

I certainly did not mean to be rude. I am definitely "outspoken" myself when it comes to certain subjects, so I certainly don't consider that word to be derogatory.

And if you took it personally, I don't consider you to be one of the particularly outspoken posters on this site. On the contrary, I find your posts to be thoughtful and intelligent.

I also consider some of the "outspoken" posters opinions to be thoughtful and intelligent.

Yeah, I understand your point about comparing the two variables, having a control group. Is it one or the other?

I read a study on the hay. I wonder if anyone has ever done a separate study on the DE?

 

[Pearce Pastures]

The only studies I have read with DE were done with poultry, which are obviously quite different from a ruminant. It would be really neat if someone would do like they did in the poultry but it would have a large enough group with a parasite load to have a control and several single variables tested.

 

[OneFineAcre]

We have this growing on our property... it is great!

Glad you posted this.

Where did you get yours? At the workshop I went to, seed is $200 for 50 lbs and out of stock apparently for the year.

There is more about this here...

http://www.sheepandgoat.com/ACSRPC/Resources/sericea.html

Thing is it isn't really a de-wormer.... Dr. L went into great detail and showed slides etc.

You are right about strong opinions, but in the end people always feel strongly about what they are doing. Insecure people will feel threatened when others do something different and they are usually the ones to disrespect a differing opinion. Somewhere along the line people can often forget to "respectfully" disagree. I really think people should use the management practices that work for them... if it isn't working then there is a problem. There is more than one way to manage goats!

See that's what I meant about not being sure if I should post this. As respectful and thoughtful as your reply was you made a statement that " Thing is it isn't really a de-wormer.... Dr. L went into great detail and showed slides etc."

I know a Dr. C who told me it is effective and he is somewhat reputable himself. I personally don't know your Dr. L.

I found another study that was done as a trial on a university research unit that found a statistically significant reduction in eggs in fecals and in the stomachs of slaughtered animals.

I will find it an post the link.

You made your statement as "factual" when obviously there is some disagreement on the subject.

That's what I meant.

 

[Bridgemoof]

Thank you for sharing this info, I'm anxious to see your results. I've reading up on this Lespediza, but not sure if I can actually get bales of it around here. I was considering buying seed though.

And Southern, what did you learn about it "not being a wormer"? I was just reading about it today in studies where it is being researched as one. I'd be interested to hear what you discovered.

 

[that's*satyrical]

The only feedback I've seen concerning using DE IN the feed was somewhat negative. They said the goats seemed to lose condition while using it. I do use DE on the paddock in heavily berried areas, and in their bed area. I also sprinkle it over them in the spring (just did the other day) to help combat any external parasite issues before they start. I use a wide spectrum dewormer when I bring a new goat home and right after kidding if the doe doesn't look to be in great condition. Other than that I don't use it. I would use it, however, if it seemed like there was a problem. I would probably run a fecal first in that case. We also dry lot our goats just because that is the type of land we have. It's mostly forest. I've heard of using garlic and rosemary as natural dewormers for pigs. I wonder if that could be used for goats as well?