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LGD space?

Discussion in 'Predators and Pests' started by june2013, Mar 7, 2015.

?

How much space do you think a *true* LGD needs?

  1. Less than or an acre

    11.1%
  2. 2-3 acres

    33.3%
  3. 4+ acres

    55.6%
  1. Mar 7, 2015
    june2013

    june2013 Exploring the pasture

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    I've done some research on LGDs. I'll be moving somewhere with an acre or two and I've heard that's too small for an actual LGD? I'm thinking about raising a Komondor, if that matters much. He'd be protecting poultry and rabbits, very possible goats or horses (I'm still considering the space I might have). Coyotes, jackals, etc. There might be some bobcats or mountain lions, but no bears for sure.
     
  2. Mar 7, 2015
    Southern by choice

    Southern by choice Herd Master

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    More important the evaluation of the dog. Some LGD's do fine in an acre or two others would not do well at all.

    Curious as to why a Komondorok? Do you have an experience with this breed?
    Would this be your first LGD?

    Please understand LGD's truly are best with sheep and goats.
    They do not particularly "bond" with poultry and must really be worked with (in most cases, and I am talking 90-95% of cases).
    Same as rabbits. Rabbits are something they would generally eat on on patrol. Most of the time poultry is protected as a "by product", if you will, from them guarding their livestock.

    Horses do best with LG Donkeys and even LG Llamas, LG dogs, not so much.

    I would first look at whether you actually need a LGD. With an acre you'd be best with 2x4 no climb 72" fencing.
     
    secuono likes this.
  3. Mar 7, 2015
    june2013

    june2013 Exploring the pasture

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    A Komondor is what I'm looking for since they seem to fit my needs and personality wise. I've had some experience as I talked to some breeders and such. They're also the only breed, other than the Tibetan Mastiff, that I've been able to work with physically. Both breeds I've never owned before.

    And yes, it would be my first time. I've had a couple Giant Schnauzers and Standard, both very stubborn and I believe protective breeds. They were only for companions though, not as LGDs.

    I see. I guess I'll force myself to get me some goats before anything! Hahaha!

    I have thought about why I needed an LGD. I'm on the paranoid side and where I am looking to own property seems to have a lot of predators. I just can't bring myself to get a gun either. Would it be okay with two, then? If not, I'll just stick to a good fence. :thumbsup
     
  4. Mar 7, 2015
    Southern by choice

    Southern by choice Herd Master

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    I have worked with the Tibetans also. Not a breed I would recommend as LGD's especially here in the states. There really are too many breeds listed as LGD's that really are better property and all around guardians than LGD's.

    Komondoroks are not an easy first time breed and very few are utilized as LGD's here in the states, most are show. Having said that they are one of the more difficult breeds.

    I too love the Giant Schnauzer :love as well as the Bouvier, and the Russian. Alas they are not LGD's though. ;)

    I would not recommend 2 on that size and actually probably not 1 either. If you were to get more of a pet line that was in/out that may work for you. I mention this because you stated poultry and rabbits. I do like LGD's in pairs (not siblings of the same age/litter) but they need to have enough work to do and enough of a job or there will often be issues. Poultry and rabbits and 2 goats aren't enough of a job really without the dog being a pet / property all around dog.

    One of the questions I ask when interviewing for a pup placement is what is your predator threat?
    What is your actual loss due to predators?

    IOW- I often hear how there are many coyotes etc in an area but that doesn't mean you will have an issue at all.
    A good friend of mine lives in a very rural area and for 5 years she had goats- no issues... until last year when the coyotes started showing up. They were logging not too far away and so they started moving about. Then they were in her driveway and by her pens... she got her first LGD and all is well.

    If your acre will be in a neighborhood and there is a good deal of activity you probably will have no issues.

    I would start with good fencing first, as you will need it if you have livestock and if in the future you really do need or just want a LGD.

    The dog should be evaluated for, and acclimated to small space.
     
  5. Mar 8, 2015
    june2013

    june2013 Exploring the pasture

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    I see... *nod* Because when i was researching LGDs, I checked out some forums and some people suggested Giant Schnauzer, so I figured I might have already had some experience to a certain degree. Guess not. :p

    And by property all around dog, you mean the whole land of my house, I presume? Sorry, my computer is either finicky on my end or I'm quite slow today.

    I know that coyotes, foxes, etc. Those are quite common threats where I am. Even though it's not a completely rural area, you can spot them. Nothing big as a bear, but there are **rare** cases of bobcats/mountain lions. And I was honestly thinking about it being both a pet and guard dog for my future goats (and honestly, if 2 acres is enough space, I'm thinking about adding some more goats...). However, after reading, some people say that they can't be both. Like they need to bond with the animals first and then bond with us, but that they'd keep their distance. Then again, this is with people with huge land. 20+ acres huge, lol.

    But I guess I should wait it out... I've been sort of stalking you (it's not on my purpose, you're just everywhere!) and you seem to be really wise in this field. :bow And thanks SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much for the help. I really needed it. :)
     
  6. Mar 8, 2015
    Southern by choice

    Southern by choice Herd Master

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    Your welcome.

    I think some of the confusion comes from the grouping of dogs.
    There are working dogs ...they are in the "Working Group". Not all working dogs are Livestock guardians. Kind of how although the Great Dane was used to drive out wild hogs but they don't do well as LGD's. Or the Wolfhound that is in the hound group... would take on and drive out wolves but is not suitable as LGD.
    Many of the working dogs were used as property protectors to guard property and farms (most of the Mastiffs were developed for this purpose) but there again they are different than a true livestock guardian breed.

    Raising up a LGD for small property and family can be done just has to be the right dog and the right person.
    BTW- all my LGD's can and do visit in my house. Have puppies in my house. Do not pee/poo in my house. They do have bad table manners though. LOL and they will stand to get anything off of anywhere food wise. Top of fridge is best. LOL BUT all my LGD's were raised in their field, know their job,love their job, love our family, love the children and protect everyone and everything entrusted to them.
    We DO bond with our dogs and they bond with us, and they bond either to livestock or territory. We do not ever "keep our distance" but we do allow them to be LGD's and do what they were born and bred to do.

    You may need a LGD one day just take your time. They are a BIG commitment. The grandsire of my 2 male pyrs died in his field at just shy of 16 years of age. Not normal to live so long but he did and I hope mine do too.
     
    luvmypets likes this.
  7. Mar 9, 2015
    babsbag

    babsbag Herd Master

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    When I got my LGD it was more for my protection than for my livestock's. I am a big chicken at night and the dogs make me feel so much safer. I have 2 dogs on about an acre most of the time with another 2 or 3 acres when I open the gate to the back pasture.

    We have good fencing, 4' no climb with a hot wire top and bottom and we have coyotes, bears, mountain lions (so I am told), and who knows what. But the fence would probably do the job most of the time. But I LOVE my dogs; they are amazing, and again, mostly for me.

    The female is good with chickens now that she is grown, the male is still iffy at times. Both of them are great with the goats.

    They seem happy on their small lot, but there are dogs that roam acres and acres and seldom see people, every dog is different.
     
  8. Mar 9, 2015
    june2013

    june2013 Exploring the pasture

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    But just reading your signature, I'm sure that they're too busy sniffing up all your animals! WOW! Beehive? I'm too much of a chicken to even harvest meh own honeh. :tongue But thanks for your input, though. I'll definitely be considering it. :)
     
  9. Mar 9, 2015
    june2013

    june2013 Exploring the pasture

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    That makes sense. But I sure do wish people got their facts before jumping on any big dog as an LGD. It'd make life so much easier to navigate through...

    Really? I've read multiple forums (before coming here) that it's best not to interact with them too much. That they can bond with you, but have to set the record straight that their livestock should be their main priority. I wonder why people think like that. Is it to just make sure or...? And I could see how you are right, and that other method I've heard could be "true." I like yours more tho! I'm starting to believe how dull I am after being blasted away by your wisdom. It reminds me of Gandalf a little bit! :old

    Their sheer size alone can explain that, I believe. I also do get scared that they might die out in the field, as well. I'm so sorry to hear that he had to leave, but then again, I'm sure he died happily knowing that he was being a good dog. I wish you the best of luck for your pups. :hugs
     
  10. Mar 9, 2015
    BrownSheep

    BrownSheep Lost in the flock

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    I know dogs who are range LGD's they travel hundreds of miles every summer with their flocks. They have limited interactions with people . They still are friendly towards people they know.

    I kept my dogs at the sheep ranch's kennel for a couple of months one spring. Intially these dogs were very aware and territorial around us....Territorial might not be the best word, but you understand they didn't think we belonged. After a couple of weeks they met us at the doors to their runs, wagging, and licking.

    I'm NOT saying don't bond with your LGD. I'm just bringing this up to point out how they want to bond with us too.