Lionhead color/pedigree breeding question

[Bunnylady]

. The E gene is much easier than the C gene. It only has E and e.

I'm sorry, but this is not correct. The E series has at least 4 alleles

Es -Steel
E - normal extension
ej - harlequin
e - non-extension

At least in this area, harlequin used to be pretty common in Lionheads, Steel a bit less so. Steel is one of those places you only want to go when you have a firm grip on both rabbit coat color and your sanity.

 

[Lionhead101]

I don't know if it will help, but here's a thread I started on the subject a while back:

https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/rabbit-coat-color-101.38256/




I love the Siamese Sables and Smoke Pearls too, but you can't actually work only with them. Y'see, to get the shading of the Siamese Sable/Smoke Pearl, you must have either cchlc or cchlch at the C locus. That's one copy of the shaded gene (cchl) and one copy of either Himalayan (ch) or REW (c). Breed two of those animals together, and some of the resulting offspring will be Siamese Sables (cchlc or cchlch). Some will be Seals (cchlcchl), animals that are so dark they look nearly black, but with just a hint of the Siamese-type shading. And of course, some will be REW (cc) or Himi (chch), unless you bred a cchlc to a cchlch. In that case, you could wind up with a chc, which is a Himi with smaller, lighter "points."

Notice that I said you will get SOME of each of those colors, not "25% of this kind, 50% of that," etc. That's because, in the real world, eggs and sperm join together totally without regard to what the others in the litter are pairing up with. If you could do the cross enough times to get 1000 offspring, you would get pretty close to 250 of one type, 500 of another, and 250 of the third, but in a sample group as small as one litter, you could get even get100% of only one color, and it would be perfectly normal.

And those are some of the reasons I feel nowhere near ready to work with those colors 😂. But I hope someday to feel comfortable and knowledgeable enough to dive into shaded varieties. Thank you so much your information really helped me get a handle on some of the stuff I had been reading. I think I have a much better idea of what my first litters may look like.

 

[Lionhead101]

I don't know if it will help, but here's a thread I started on the subject a while back:

https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/rabbit-coat-color-101.38256/




I love the Siamese Sables and Smoke Pearls too, but you can't actually work only with them. Y'see, to get the shading of the Siamese Sable/Smoke Pearl, you must have either cchlc or cchlch at the C locus. That's one copy of the shaded gene (cchl) and one copy of either Himalayan (ch) or REW (c). Breed two of those animals together, and some of the resulting offspring will be Siamese Sables (cchlc or cchlch). Some will be Seals (cchlcchl), animals that are so dark they look nearly black, but with just a hint of the Siamese-type shading. And of course, some will be REW (cc) or Himi (chch), unless you bred a cchlc to a cchlch. In that case, you could wind up with a chc, which is a Himi with smaller, lighter "points."

Notice that I said you will get SOME of each of those colors, not "25% of this kind, 50% of that," etc. That's because, in the real world, eggs and sperm join together totally without regard to what the others in the litter are pairing up with. If you could do the cross enough times to get 1000 offspring, you would get pretty close to 250 of one type, 500 of another, and 250 of the third, but in a sample group as small as one litter, you could even get100% of only one color, and it would be perfectly normal.

So it sounds like I would need to keep around more breeding stock if I work with shaded varieties. I could possibly get a siamese sable out of my first pairing but it sounds like I need a rew and maybe a pointed white(himi gene right?) to achieve smoke pearls and sable points. Rew keeps color correct and pointed whites darken mask. But that I think also depends on what is in everyone's background...maybe more work than I'm ready for...I am excited to work on my rew and black tort quality. I know I will get those. If I get a great looking siamese sable I would be thrilled. I can't thank you enough for your patience while I try to understand!

 

[Niele da Kine]

Ooops! BunnyLady is absolutely right! I don't have the harlequin or steel in the herd here so I forget about those options on the E gene.