Need suggestions: New LGD and current dog fighting - a lot.

[ttclan]

Hello all

I'm hoping that someone can offer some suggestions, sage advice...

I realize that all dogs need to work out their hierarchy...and that some fighting would be expected when introducing a new dog into the family, but this seems to be a little more than just basic working things out. They are really aggressive toward one another.

Here's the basic situation and you can tell me that I'm worrying too much, that's okay.

We have an almost 9 year old Rottie, we live in the mountains and have a lot of trouble with predators. She has become an amazing protector, but she's getting old and has hip issues. She sees not only the family, but also our animals as hers. She actually herds the chickens - it's really funny to watch. She has always been a house dog.

With the recent addition of mountain lions coming down on the property and the already big packs of coyotes consistently trying for my flocks, we felt it was important to get an LGD and give her a partner. He will be an outside dog and will live with our birds and goats and any other animals we get as a true LGD.

So, we got a new boy, from really good lines who all were used for and proven as protection dogs (Colorado Mountain Dog)...unfortunately he was bought by city folk and lived in a small yard. He was returned because the family realized he really needed space and a job to do...so no personality flaws or issues. Good for them to wise up and realize the mistake they made!

He's just 1 (as in he turned 1 last week) and was back with the original breeder for a time on her working ranch before she felt we would be a good match for him. He responded very well to the goats, horses, chickens, ducks and geese she had and feels with a little work we can bring him back as a true LGD, especially since he is still young. He's wonderful! FYI: He did fight a little bit with her two dogs, but both of hers were clearly more dominant.

My female has always been the submissive one every time we've socialized her with other dogs, but with the coyotes she's pretty aggressive and so far has chased them off every time.

Apparently, he has typically been more submissive to other dogs too.

So now, I have these two dogs both typically near the bottom of hierarchies, fighting a lot - it's been several days of consistent fighting.

She typically initiates the fighting...almost always when we are around the two of them. They are not fighting unless one of us are there. I think...she's the dominant one, but he's still trying. She got hurt yesterday, he got her ear and drew blood, but she's not giving in even so. Today, twice he laid down in her presence after they were fighting.

How far and how long do we allow them to fight it out?

I also need some suggestions to help them with the hierarchy knowing that they have different jobs and will live differently. She herds and protects, but he will live with and protect...giving my animals a voice too.

Is there anything I can do to help with them? Meaning, can I help with giving preference to her as more dominant dog? If she truly is? Do I need to wait and see who fully "wins" first?

I would really appreciate your thoughts., especially because we are not dealing with typical dogs just living in the same household.

BTW: they are both neutered/spayed.

 

[fortheloveofgoats]

Hello all

I'm hoping that someone can offer some suggestions, sage advice...

I realize that all dogs need to work out their hierarchy...and that some fighting would be expected when introducing a new dog into the family, but this seems to be a little more than just basic working things out. They are really aggressive toward one another.

Here's the basic situation and you can tell me that I'm worrying too much, that's okay.

We have an almost 9 year old Rottie, we live in the mountains and have a lot of trouble with predators. She has become an amazing protector, but she's getting old and has hip issues. She sees not only the family, but also our animals as hers. She actually herds the chickens - it's really funny to watch. She has always been a house dog.

With the recent addition of mountain lions coming down on the property and the already big packs of coyotes consistently trying for my flocks, we felt it was important to get an LGD and give her a partner. He will be an outside dog and will live with our birds and goats and any other animals we get as a true LGD.

So, we got a new boy, from really good lines who all were used for and proven as protection dogs (Colorado Mountain Dog)...unfortunately he was bought by city folk and lived in a small yard. He was returned because the family realized he really needed space and a job to do...so no personality flaws or issues. Good for them to wise up and realize the mistake they made!

He's just 1 (as in he turned 1 last week) and was back with the original breeder for a time on her working ranch before she felt we would be a good match for him. He responded very well to the goats, horses, chickens, ducks and geese she had and feels with a little work we can bring him back as a true LGD, especially since he is still young. He's wonderful! FYI: He did fight a little bit with her two dogs, but both of hers were clearly more dominant.

My female has always been the submissive one every time we've socialized her with other dogs, but with the coyotes she's pretty aggressive and so far has chased them off every time.

Apparently, he has typically been more submissive to other dogs too.

So now, I have these two dogs both typically near the bottom of hierarchies, fighting a lot - it's been several days of consistent fighting.

She typically initiates the fighting...almost always when we are around the two of them. They are not fighting unless one of us are there. I think...she's the dominant one, but he's still trying. She got hurt yesterday, he got her ear and drew blood, but she's not giving in even so. Today, twice he laid down in her presence after they were fighting.

How far and how long do we allow them to fight it out?

I also need some suggestions to help them with the hierarchy knowing that they have different jobs and will live differently. She herds and protects, but he will live with and protect...giving my animals a voice too.

Is there anything I can do to help with them? Meaning, can I help with giving preference to her as more dominant dog? If she truly is? Do I need to wait and see who fully "wins" first?

I would really appreciate your thoughts., especially because we are not dealing with typical dogs just living in the same household.

BTW: they are both neutered/spayed.

You are right, they do need to fight it out, but if it's non stop, I would start calling the shots. Let them know that you are in charge. Make them listen to you. If you can catch them before they are getting aggressive with each other, that will help you as well. So usually the hair goes up, you can hear a low growl, the upper lip goes up. What I do with my rottie, if he thinks he is top dog, I let him know he's not. I will get in a deep voice, and yell his name. If that doesn't stop him, I say it again and make him sit. If he is still trying I bite the tip of his ear. It might sound horrible, but it's what mamma dogs do. Now I am not saying bite so hard you draw blood or you can tell where you bite. It's the one thing I learned when running with mushing dogs. It works on my rottie, now that he is 7 I haven't had to do it in years. I hope that this helps. I think that they are just trying to figure out who gets your attention first and the most. Please keep us updated.

 

[ttclan]

Thanks for the response. We have started stepping in and pulling them apart...well, not me, my ranch hand has.

So, your advice helps me feel that stepping in at this point was the right thing. We have been watching her and stopping her before she gets beyond the hair raising and growl. And teaching him that it's not acceptable to be growling/fighting with anything other than predators. (I don't want him to start thinking other animals on the property are for him to fight with...in particular our mammals, goats, dog, etc. He hasn'' been with us long enough to leave him with any of the animals at this point. He's still young and not a true guardian, yet.)

I've been there on the biting ear thing with her...I've done it myself in the past. She's not our first Rottie, so we are familiar with strong dominate dogs, just never had this much fighting go one between two dogs.

I think she's feeling that he's taking over her place as protector and in some ways he is. She's getting old and having hip issues, I want to retire her, to some respect, but I don't want her to feel like she's being replaced. Ultimately, I want her to have a partner with the predators, she's in a lot of pain after she keeps the coyotes off the animals and out of our pasture.

Maybe I haven't helped with this myself, I can see a few things I did on day 1 and 2 that may have made her step up her need to protect her place.

I do know that whoever ends up top dog, we need to respect that hierarchy and treat top dog like top dog...with us as Alpha of course.

Today, she hasn't been near him and by last night it seemed like he might be getting tired of it himself and may be backing down. = I'm ready for the fighting to stop.

We'll see what happens, I'll let you know.

Thanks again!