Need to deworm Bad

[Horsefly]

I noticed their eyelids going pale awhile back and was going to order ivomec. Well stuff comes up and that got put off...several months. I had safeguard goat dewormer and gave them all that a few months ago but I don't think it really did any good, just made me think I did something for them. I had been noticing their coats looked a little rough on a few of them and they were fat, but they eat weeds all day so I dismissed it. Well this morning I went to let them out their stall and our favorite little girl who is around 8 months old looks really bad. She isn't as perky as the rest and looks like she lost 15 lbs over night. So I check her eyelid and its pretty seriously white. I gave her safeguard dewormer (I overdosed the recomended dosage since it didn't work last time) because I don't have anything else. We are going to go to TSC this afternoon and just buy the ivomec today. Its cheaper to order it from Jeffers and we need some other stuff to but I think we need it now.
What is the exact ivomec I should get? Is it the swine injectable, and whats the dose? anything else I should get for her? I have some high calorie goat suppement stuff I will give to her just to keep her energy up some. I really shouldn't have let it get to this point but now I know and want to fix it as fast as possible.

 

[glenolam]

http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=5514

Read this thread. It sounds like you're along the same line.

You want to be very careful with how much and what you're puting into her at this stage. Her body is fighting everything right now so you need to take it careful.

The ivomec you need is for cattle/swine.

 

[Horsefly]

Thanks for the speedy reply. So Im going to go get the ivomec really soon. Is the correct dosage 1ml per 25lb body weight? I keep finding 100 different opinions on this. Also what is Red Cell? I see alot of people use this.
So I gave 1.25 ml safeguard to her this morning and will give her whatever the dose is of ivomec tonight. I have a nutient supplement for stressed or show goats that I will give her today along with probis. Anything else? Should I repeat the safeguard again tomorrow?

 

[cmjust0]

You want the 1% injectable for cattle.. The dosage I typically use is about 1ml/25lbs of bodyweight, but I've seen dosages anywhere from 3-5ml/100lbs.. Dose it *orally* -- don't give it as an injection! Draw it up into the syringe, pop the needle off, and shoot it right down her throat.

Continue the Safe-Guard for a few more days, too. I give it at 1ml/10lbs of bodyweight for 3-straight days. It'll have some effect.

Keep in mind that giving all these deworming meds to a goat in this bad of a shape has the potential to kill her... Some folks would recommend doing the Safe-Guard FIRST, then doing the ivomec at some point after that (ranging anywhere from immediately to 10 daysdepending) whereas others will tell you to hit them hard with the strongest thing you have right up front. It's your call.. Since she's not in bottlejaw yet, I'd *personally* use the Ivomec ASAP -- even if that means using it simultaneously and in conjunction with the Safe-Guard.

There's some info in the thread referenced above on using Red Cell, too... I like Red Cell a lot in situations like this.


You mention that she seems to have lost 15lbs overnight...is she scouring? While the type of worm that causes anemia (the barberpole worm) can definitely have an effect on their overall condition, it's usually not that drastic.. Having said that, the apparent drastic weight loss makes me wonder if there's perhaps something else going on in addition to a barberpole problem..

 

[Horsefly]

What is red cell? She feels really thin today and has hollows on her sides. More so than the usual skinny they are in the morning after digesting at night. I don't know if she is scouring, I did notice her rear looked dirty this morning, like she sat in some dirty water.

 

[glenolam]

The dosage on Ivomec differs from person to person because in certain parts of the US the drug is no longer as efficient as it is on other parts. It all depends on your area.

How much does the doeling weigh? Generally, people dose anywhere from 1cc/50# (being a weak strength) to 1cc/25#. I do 1cc/30# ORALLY (not injected).

Red Cell can be found at TSC in the horse section. It's a booster for goats and, although I've never used it but have it on-hand, I've read it can be given at high doses, like 6ml/30# or something like that, and still be OK. Read that other post to see what CM did or search this forum for Red Cell.

The Safeguard can and should be given at 3x the lable dose because this wormer is said to be one of the weakest as far as worm defense. Since it's been overused, worms are more resistant to it. However, a friend of mine had a doe almost dying of worm overload and gave her everything under the sun, including ivomec, and the only thing that really worked was Safeguard.

I'd assume it's safe to treat with Safeguard again tomorrow and the next day.

From what I've read here, too, you might want to hold off on Probios just for now. It depends on the person - my thought is that I should use it so good bacteria are going into the goat and helping it, but it's been mentioned that giving probios isn't the best idea when there's a war going on between good and bad...Better to use the Probios to get the rumen going again once it's in stable condition. Personally, I'd still give it, but you may differ.

ETA - it's also a great idea to get a fecal sample to your vet. That way you will know for sure what type of worm is invading your doe.

Has she been treated for coccidia? Does she have a temperature? Is she still eating/drinking/peeing/pooping normal?

 

[cmjust0]

Thanks for the speedy reply. So Im going to go get the ivomec really soon. Is the correct dosage 1ml per 25lb body weight? I keep finding 100 different opinions on this.

That'll work for a dosage, given orally.

Also what is Red Cell? I see alot of people use this.

Red Cell.

It's a vitamin/mineral supplement for horses that contains lots and lots of iron.. Best I could ever figure, dosage is about 1ml/10lbs of bodyweight 1x/day for about a week..

I've given kids of maybe 30lbs a full 6ml/day for a week with good results too, though.

So I gave 1.25 ml safeguard to her this morning

That's not nearly enough...not even close. At 8mos of age, she probably should be getting something more like 7-10ml/day for 3 days, depending on her weight (which I'm guessing is 70-100lbs?)..

and will give her whatever the dose is of ivomec tonight. I have a nutient supplement for stressed or show goats that I will give her today along with probis. Anything else? Should I repeat the safeguard again tomorrow?

Actually, I'd pretend like today's Safe-Guard never happened and give her a more appropriate dose of it tonight, probably right alongside the Ivomec..

That's me, though, and I'm prone to doing stuff like that.

FWIW, there's a dewormer in Australia called "q-drench" which combines a macrolide (ivomec's a macrolide), a benzamidazole (Safe-Guard's a benzamidazole), closantel, and levemisole hydrochloride ALL IN ONE DOSE.

Soooooooooo...do with that what you will.

 

[Horsefly]

She is probably around 35 pounds right now. She is small, I forgot to say she is a fainting goat. Her Mom is small probably around 50-60 pounds and her twin brother is alittle bigger than her.
I just got back from getting ivomec. We went to a local feed store and they had ivomax, it's listed as being a 1% ivermectin solution for swine and cattle so I asumed it was the same thing. I didn't get the red cell, if it's just a suppliment we have Dyne Goat and Sheep high calorie liquid dietary supplement that I am giving her.
Tonight I'll give her 3 ml safeguard, 1 ml ivomax, and 1/2 oz of suppliment. Does this sound right? And then I'll repeat the safeguard dosage for 3 more days.

 

[glenolam]

Sounds like the same thing.

If the dose lable on your Dyne Goat and supplement say 1/2 oz, then go for that....I've never used either so I'm not sure on that one.

You'll also want to hit her up again with the ivomax in 10 days, so mark your calendar.

Any temperature? And what about the coccidia treatment? Does she have scours?

 

[Horsefly]

Okay ivomax 10 days later. I just took her temp, it's 103.1 and it does look like she has some scours. She is still hanging with the other goats just laying down sometimes while the others are eating. I'm getting more worried about her. I've never treated anything for coccida should I be thinking about that for her?