New to calf raising....HELP!

[Kettle Creek Cattle]

Good day all!

I'm hoping someone with wayyy more experience raising calves will chime in and help me out! I recently aquired two bottle calves, a holstein bull and a holstein/angus cross heifer. They were both born on 11-12-20. They came from the same farm and the farmer assured me they both received colostrum.
When I got them home the bull calf seemed sickly while the little heifer was lively and vibrant. Only having experience raising beef cattle (feeder size), I purchased high quality milk replacer.
Both calves took to the bottle right away and ate well. About a week after I got them the bull calf went down with a bad case of scours (based on everything I've read). Did electrolyte therapy but sadly he never got back up.
Fast forward to 5 days ago. My heifer calf started showing the same symptoms i.e., watery diarrhea, lethargic, going off feed. I contacted two large animal veterinarians (the only 2 near my home) and both would not come out because I live too far away.
I quickly hopped on the interweb for suggestions. After sifting through endless possibilities, I flew down to tractor supply and bought about everything I could get my hands on (penicillin, LA200, scour tablets, oral B12 gel, more electrolytes etc).
I continued feeding milk replacer with electrolytes in between. Contacted my dog vet of all people and she told me to give her a shot of penicillin (3ml) and give her the scour tablets (terramycin). She said to give both meds for 5 days. I gave her one shot of penicillin three days ago and started her on the scour tablets (one tablet every 12hrs). I lowered her milk intake from three feedings (8oz powder in 2 quarts of water) to two feedings with an electrolyte bottle in the afternoon between the two feedings. This morning she was seemingly starving (finally) and sucked her bottle down in no time. I gave her the reccomend dose of the oral B12 after her bottle. This afternoon I opted to not give her milk and gave her electrolytes instead. She sucked that down quickly and still seemed very hungry. She has mixed grass hay and calf starter pellets free choice. I did notice in her stall this afternoon that she finally had a bowel movement that was somewhat solid (the first in 5 days).
Now, before I screw things up and make her go backwards again, what should my course of action be from here on out?
I genuinely appreciate anyone taking the time to read this long post and willing to offer their expertise as I am flying by the seat of my pants here. I already lost one calf and don't want to lose her!

 

[B&B Happy goats]

@farmerjan .....HELP please....

 

[farmerjan]

Sorry that you had these difficulties... but that is not uncommon. Did you see any blood or real dark black looking spots in the manure?? Watery or not? Very possible that it was coccidiosis.... that usually hits after about 2 weeks.... Not usually fatal unless they dehydrate..... but it can hit them and get them down quick....
Not having seen yours, I can't say for sure.... but very common and possible.
CORID is for coccidiosis, works good. But, if you follow the directions it will take some time. This is what I do, on the advice of a vet years ago....... 3 ml syringe of the liquid corid, full strength out of the bottle, directly down the throat... 3 days in a row. If you follow the directions on the bottle to mix in a dilution, then add to a bottle etc..... it will work but takes forever....
Scours pills will work, but they take time......
I have used Immodium (people diarrhea medicine) to get them "stopped up" so they are not dehydrating. 1 pill and then a 2nd 8-12 hrs later..... gotta stop them from "squirting" out any liquid as fast as it goes in. Kaopectate often will not be well received.... you could tube it but I hate to tube any calf unless they just are not drinking.

When ever you bring home a new calf....add YOGURT with live bacteria, mixed in a bottle. Give 1/2 bottle with 8-16 oz. of yogurt mixed in.... they will drink it without fighting it because as they are swallowing, it doesn't taste so bad..... We actually use what is now promoted as "drinkable yogurt" or what we used to call Kefir...... Give them that for at least the first 2 feedings. You want them to be hungry..... feed 3 times a day for the first couple days, giving them 1/2 bottle each time, the first day or 2. Then up them to a full bottle but keep the yogurt in it for at least a few more feedings.
I am NOT a proponent of feeding more than 2 bottles a day for at least 2-3 weeks. A calf on a cow will drink about a pint of milk at a time when very young. Yes they drink often, BUT, they are not overwhelming their little stomachs. Too much milk is often a cause of scours, which then weakens their new digestive system, which allows other "bad bugs" to get into their system. They cannot overcome it at that young age. It is like just flooding their gut tract.

It doesn't hurt to use yogurt whenever you want. Like a person eating yogurt... good for your gut bacteria.....

Do you have chickens that the calves can interact with? Coccidiosis is common in chickens, and the calves can pick it up from them..... all they have to do is have access and they can pick it up..... again... not life or death if you know what to look for and to counteract it.
Probios is good, yogurt is cheaper. Electrolytes are good for energy, and it sounds like you are not mixing it in the milk which is good. But they have to have milk too, as it sounds like you were doing.

Sometimes the "bugs" on the farm where the calf comes from do not "mesh" with the "bugs" on your farm. I have raised countless calves and there are 2 farms I will not get calves from. Their bugs and my bugs do not mix.... I have never been able to raise a calf off the one farm...... There are other farms that I have had super fantastic luck with....

Any chance the bull calf might have gotten an infection through the naval? Black leg usually does not hit them that young....but a clostridium can get in their gut tract.... it doesn't just cause blackleg. I would give a 7 way blackleg shot about a week after, only because you are changing their environment. Only if they are not showing any signs of sickness..... The dam should have passed on a passive resistance to blackleg (clostridiums) but........
It sounds like you also are well schooled in Vit B-12 as an appetite stimulant.....

Hope this helps..... but really, try feeding less, and adding yogurt to it.... it will be a little thicker but not much because you are not adding alot......and if they get loose.... treat as if coccidiosis.... it cannot hurt them at all.

 

[Kettle Creek Cattle]

FarmerJan,

Thank you kindly for your explanation! I will definitely get the "drinkable" yogurt. I just got back from feeding her bottle. Again, she took it like a champ! Also another BM and it too was looking like normal manure. I did not notice any blood in the watery diarrhea, there was evidence all over her stall walls.
I was definitely overfeeding her I think. Now that she is a month old today, should I feed two or three bottles a day? I don't care how much milk replacer I go through and I'm not planning on weaning her early. I want her to have the best start I can because I plan on letting my Hereford bull breed her when she's old enough, she's gonna live her life out on my farm (hopefully a very long life). Anyway, enough of my ranting....should I feed 2 or 3 bottles per day now? Thank you so much for your time!

 

[farmerjan]

I would honestly just feed 2. If you feed three she will be that much less inclined to want to eat grain. Since she is a dairy/angus x, she is not a huge monsterous bull calf that needs more milk. I have usually only ever fed 2 bottles except to a few really big calves.... I want them to get started eating grain and if they are full, they have less reason to start to eat. The rumen needs to start to develop so I would let her stay at 2 since she is doing good, and she will go looking for feed. After you give her the bottle, and she is looking for more, stuff a small amount of grain in her mouth and let her mouth it/chew it.... if she is not already trying it on her own.
I wouldn't put more than a pint of the yogurt in her bottle since she is drinking good now. Enough to help with the live gut microbes, not enough to upset her balance now. I would wean her in the 12-14 week range if she is eating good.... by 4 months (16 weeks) most beef calves are eating a fair amount along with momma...... and the cows milk is diminishing.
I take it that you have some beef cattle?

Also, please post your general area/state in your profile so that when we answer a question, we can tailor an answer.... advice for Fl is different from advice for Maine sometimes; climate can make a difference.

Welcome aboard!!!!

 

[Kettle Creek Cattle]

Ok got it, two bottles a day. Yes I currently have a small herd of Hereford's, a registered bull, two heifers and a soon to be second time momma.

Also, profile has been updated

Thanks again for your time!

 

[farmerjan]

I am real "behind" as I don't even have a digital camera..... just got a decent internet connection since I bought a house and it has a new high speed fiber optic cable here. But everyone really likes pictures.... (hint hint) !!!!!!

So glad to hear she is doing better...... you'll get it.... and sometimes things like the bull calf, which it seems had a bit of an issue even with the colostrum, there is just nothing you can do. But now you have a few other things to try..... and do it as soon as you THINK there is a problem...... don't be afraid to try bottle calves again..... I can tell that you are definitely a caring and conscientious person and willing and able to do what needs doing. Bottle babies are sometimes a real pain.... and some people have the touch and some don't..... but they can be fun and they can help to increase someone's herd, or give them extra beef that is home raised. You won't make much money on them in the current economy..... but they can be a positive in cash flow situations at times.

 

[Kettle Creek Cattle]

She is doing MUCH better today! I got home from work this morning and went right up to the barn to check on her. Fearing the worst, I slowly opened the top half of the door only to find her standing there all bright eyed and perky as if to say "feed me now!"
She took her bottle no problem. I gave her another dose of the b12 gel, one to keep her hungry and two, it has probiotics in it to help offset the antibiotic regimen she was just on. Her poop is definitely back to normal.
I now have another question. How slowly should I ramp up the amount of milk powder she gets daily? Surely, 8oz in 2 quarts of water ×2 daily isn't enough for her is it?
Thanks for all your help too by the way. It's nice to see there are still good people out there, in my line of work I rarely ever get to see that!!
Anyway, as requested here are a few pictures from around my little farm

 

[farmerjan]

Did the milk replacer come with a cup in it to measure out the replacer? If so, that is all that should get mixed into the 2 qts of water. They are usually 8-10 ounce cups or so.....Real milk is about 85% water.... that is full fat milk right from a cow....So you will not be changing the amount of milk powder in the mix. Read the instructions, and follow them. Really, that is what it is supposed to be.
She looks happy.....if possible, get her out into the sunshine..... that will help with anything.... I am a big believer in sunshine.....

Very nice pictures.... and of course, there is always one "dummy" that has to stand in the feeder..... makes the feed taste better . Nice looking animals and pretty country land....

 

[Kettle Creek Cattle]

Yep, it did come with a cup. The bag says 12oz twice per day in 2 quarts of water. I weigh each feeding on a scale. Would it be ok to give her the full 12oz tonight? I've been giving her 8oz since shes been sick.

Yea, my bull seems to always wanna stand in the feed bunk. I dont know how much longer the darn thing will hold up now that he's getting bigger haha