Now that winter is upon us

[Roy and Vicky]

I have more questions, imagine that!!

Duh is now almost 10 months old and Minnie is just five weeks behind him. The grass in the pasture is all but gone now. We are giving them two gallons of 14% grain a day and adding in alfalfa hay as well. How many flecks of hay is enough per day? I have been told a bale a week between them, to give them as much as they will eat each day. We give the grain morning and night and i give a fleck of hay around lunch time. Should we be giving more? We're still hovering around the 40's in the day time and only had a few below freezing nights. We don't get really cold here and don't get a lot of snow, but I don't want to under feed them.

 

[Royd Wood]

Are they beef ?????? - To me that sounds like the wrong way round as I would be letting them eat free choice hay 24 - 7 and a little less grain (I dont feed any grain to mine)
Hopefully someone else will pitch in with their thoughts

Edit - Just noticed your sig Angus & Shorthorn

 

[greybeard]

I have more questions, imagine that!!

Duh is now almost 10 months old and Minnie is just five weeks behind him. The grass in the pasture is all but gone now. We are giving them two gallons of 14% grain a day and adding in alfalfa hay as well. How many flecks of hay is enough per day? I have been told a bale a week between them, to give them as much as they will eat each day. We give the grain morning and night and i give a fleck of hay around lunch time. Should we be giving more? We're still hovering around the 40's in the day time and only had a few below freezing nights. We don't get really cold here and don't get a lot of snow, but I don't want to under feed them.

What Royd said.

See the underlined part?

That means you put out all the hay they can eat in 24hrs and you do it for each 24 hrs. That's what free choice means. If they eat it all--then you probably haven't put out enough.
I put out round bales now, but have fed sm square bales in the past. With sq bales, I just fill all the feeders up and watch for it to begin to get low then filled 'em again. With round bales, I put 'em in the rings, and when the cattle have eaten 'almost' all of it, I drop another one in. Winter and hay--let 'em have all they want. To do that, it has got to be out for them.

If you throw a couple sections (flecks) of hay out and they've eaten it all next time you look at them--that's not free choice. That's "your" choice.
IOW, unless something is wrong with them, there should be hay in front of them every hour of every day.

 

[redtailgal]

What they said.

Hay should be out 24/7, esp in the winter months.

We dont grain at all here, unless the winter is REALLY bad, or a cow is struggling when raising a calf ( once the calf is raised, she is GONE).

I wouldnt feed a beef any grain at all, if I could help it.

 

[Roy and Vicky]

This gets so confusing. We were told by a friend who raises black angus to keep them on grain until they are a year old because their rumen (SP) were too young to handle just pasture and they would be grow fatter but not bigger if we only fed pasture. He also said through winter keep the grain going and add as much hay as they wanted to eat without wasting it. BLAH I feel so lost.

 

[WildRoseBeef]

This gets so confusing. We were told by a friend who raises black angus to keep them on grain until they are a year old because their rumen (SP) were too young to handle just pasture and they would be grow fatter but not bigger if we only fed pasture. He also said through winter keep the grain going and add as much hay as they wanted to eat without wasting it. BLAH I feel so lost.

Different people have different ways of doing things. Your friend's Angus sound like they're more high-maintenance than they need to be. I'm using the BS flag on the part that they "would grow fatter but not bigger if we only fed pasture" That's the complete opposite if you're graining them all the time; they're going to get fatter, not bigger, on grain than on pasture.

So if I were you I'd ignore you're friends advice and keep up with the hay, graining only as needed. The alfalfa hay sounds to be sufficient protein without the additional protein from the grain.

But he may be right about graining through the winter. But as I said it should only be if they need it, like if they're loosing weight on the hay, then it should be fed as a supplement.

 

[boothcreek]

Jeeze, now I feel like we have been feeding our cows wrong the past 9 yrs, we never free choiced hay, they get fed with the horses and they get fed twice a day if its really cold(-20 and colder), once if its only like -5 or so. They spend the rest of the day foraging their 60 acres.
We have dexters and they get about 3 flakes of hay per head per feeding same like the horses, but we do make about 4-5 additional 3-flake piles in case someone tries to hog the hay. 3 horses and 6 cows, we usually end up with 12 or so piles of hay.
Grain is a treat now and then, generally only something they get when I want to check up on them closer. Right now they are getting about a cup of grain each every other day just the train the steer thats going to freezer camp at christmas to go into this one paddock thats vehicle accessible, its really just to motivate.
Never had condition issues with our cows this way.

I have been told cows should only solely have hay, grain only if your putting the 6-8 week finish on them for the freezer. Most our local angus and herford breeders do it that way, altho most dont even bother finishing them with grain.

 

[greybeard]

Boothcreek--you have 60 acres on which your cattle can forage--that, takes the place of hay.

, they get fed with the horses and they get fed twice a day if its really cold(-20 and colder), once if its only like -5 or so. They spend the rest of the day foraging their 60 acres.

WRB, the only thing I would add to that is what we call 'grassbelly' around here. Cattle on lots of improved pasture forage tend to grow wide and not to their optimum frame size. Especially true in young heifers and uncut bulls. Usually caused by understocking available acerage or misuse of crossfencing. I have a few like that myself as I keep 2 different breeds--in different pastures, with the BMs in more pasture than they can actually keep eaten down.

I'm using the BS flag on the part that they "would grow fatter but not bigger if we only fed pasture" That's the complete opposite if you're graining them all the time; they're going to get fatter, not bigger, on grain than on pasture.

It also depends on one's endgame, whether they are raising females to build a herd or whether they are involved in the commercial production--and of course breed type and the genetics involved.

 

[Royd Wood]

Jeeze, now I feel like we have been feeding our cows wrong the past 9 yrs, .

No thats not true - there are different methods and ideas - we have around 30 head of breeding stock so free choice round bale hay in big feeders works for us. The strictly no grain bit was a business decision to produce true grass fed beef and lamb.
It takes me 30 months to finish beef (2 winters) now thats not going to suit everyone to have beef around that long and if you go back 80 years ago before corn (maize for any Europeans) feeding to beef even happened the average age to slaughter was 4 years.
Toxicity in corn is higher in some areas this year due to the drought which cattle tend to tolerate thats why I eat grass fed beef but also the hay shortage in alot of areas means a tough year and getting through the winter ahead by any method

 

[Cricket]

Maybe if you thought of the hay as their nutritious supper and the grain as dessert? And if you start backing off on their grain, be prepared for some unhappy calves for awhile! I only give my 6 month old dairy steer about 1.5lbs per day and as much hay as he'll eat.