Pasture management Myotonic goats vs Shetland sheep

[ShadowsFIAL]

okay I am having a really tough time. The more I think about it I don't think we can honestly do both sheep and goats. My husband is set on having one or two pet goats. I wanted sheep. We have 1 acre. The front half of the property I was going to keep the female sheep/goats. And keep the males in a back paddock. Which do you think would be best for my situation.

I drew a basic layout of how I plan to use the property. I will also admit that I plan to try and keep two miniature dairy cows. I have thrown the idea back and forth several times but I think I am going to go ahead with it, even if I do have to supplement feed.

My questions:

1. which animals will do better in this space. I am going to have to seed the lot anyway so I will plant it for their needs. That picture is what he ground is like right now after a fresh now in the winter. I know that there are a lot of cattle ranches out here.

2. Which animals will I get more use out of

3. Which ones are easier to handle/friendlier

4. Which meat tastes better, in your own opinion.

I am not sure if I will use the wool or not to be honest. Myotonic goats vs Shetland sheep.

That being said how many sections would you divide the space into? What would your recommendations be for managing animals in this space. Thinking 2-3 males and 2-6 females

 

[Latestarter]

Honesty... I really hate to be a downer/bummer... the "bad guy", but you asked.

IMHO... You don't have anywhere near enough room on 1 acre for 1/2 of what you have outlined without keeping virtually every animal in a cage. And all your land if placed in a single pasture of lush vegetation, would feed the number of animals you intend for less than a week. You WILL be required to provide not just supplemental feed (it's not a matter of "IF") but ALL feed requirements, for all these animals, for the entire year, year round. What little plant life the animals don't eat, they will trample and defecate/urinate on, thereby making it useless as food to all. In a matter of less than a month, your entire property will be a dust bowl unless it rains, in which case it will be a mud/crap bowl. And you're going to have a massive amount of manure to deal with as well. Where will you put it all?

He wants goats, you want sheep, one or both want cows, then there's all the various birds and the rabbits, and you want garden space and an orchard. The space allocated for your orchard alone (for example) would hold two, maybe 3 trees max. Each tree requires its own space of an ~30-40 foot diameter circle to have root/growth space. You'll also likely need 2 of each type fruit tree for cross pollination, although some are self pollinating. You have indicated bees and have them right in the middle of everything... NOT a good plan as down here you WILL have to deal with AHBs, and they need to be placed AWAY from anything that might light them off. You'll have dead animals from bees/stings/attacks.

Not sure where you're located in TX, but location will determine what forage you can plant and expect success. Some things simply won't grow in some places. Obviously water is going to be another huge issue... not just for the animals but for all these vegetation plans. I suggest you contact your county extension agent and ask for them to visit your property and do an analysis of the soils and what would need to be done to create a pasture and what to plant in that pasture. They will also be able to advise you on what kinds and how many animals you could realistically keep on your property. I'm sure they will echo what I've already pointed out. What you have marked out as pastures are really the size of dry lots... 25'x50' or so.

It's great to dream, but I would suggest you step back and look at your situation realistically, scale back substantially, and then start slowly, one thing at a time and see how it goes. Chickens are said to be the gateway animal and are a great way to start. Build your coop(s) and pens/runs for your birds then get them. After that, get a couple of goats (not myotonic/fainting, but useful goats - dairy/meat/crosses) or a couple of sheep, as they can provide milk as well as meat. The dairy goats can still be hubby's pets, but at least they'll provide something useful back and not be just for (expensive) lawn ornaments. You need to get sheep that will provide something back as well... dairy or fiber or meat. I say this because the numbers you say you want are not really conducive to be pets, & since you're indicating both male and female animals you are talking breeding livestock. Just remember, they all have to get pregnant, gestate, give birth, then feed the kids/lambs for at least a little while before that milk will be available for your use. Nigies and some sheep breeds can breed year round, most full sized goats and sheep are fall breeders and spring birthers. If they aren't helping to pay for themselves, this is going to be one extremely expensive petting zoo you're creating.

Again, I'm sorry, but you asked. Whatever you do, I hope you'll continue to post on here so we can follow along with you on your journey and I hope that it works out for you 100% successful!

 

[Mini Horses]

You may want to check what zoning &/or deed restrictions allow or not. Sometimes that makes your decision for you.

Your dreams are large I'm with Latestarter, check with your extension agent for ideas of what will grow for you. But, as he also pointed out, you want a lot on a small plot. The goats will eat the young fruit trees (just FYI) and any garden they can get into. Pasture and browse will be your constant expense for more than a couple goats OR sheep.

The goats can give milk. You can take them to a buck for breeding instead of trying to maintain one. And if you have all that you list, you will have barren land. Period. Maybe you could lease a couple acres?

I have a goat herd, pigs & mini horses and chickens (& 15 acres) Been doing this many years and while you have a start and desire, I would limit your practical space to 2 goats or sheep, birds & some rabbit cages. You will need year round hay even with this size "herd".

That acre looks huge when empty. Believe me, it fills fast when you add shelters and animals.

 

[ShadowsFIAL]

Sorry I don't know how to quote people.

But I agree that was what I was worried about. How hard is it to find studs for goats? If I did that I might just get my husband two fainter does and me a Nubian doe and be done with the goats and just forget about the sheep. I have been around goats, never sheep. I just found the sheep cuter and more useful and I know I like the way sheep meat tastes. The fainting goats I know are a meat breed so I do not expect to get any milk from them, but a single Nubian doe ifigured I could at least get enough to make soaps or something.

Thank you both for your knowledgeable responses.

I habe had chickens before but the ducks and turkey will be new for me. As for manure management I was thinking of havin a compost pile in the garden, and what I couldn't fit have hauled off. I also am thinking about just planting the fruit trees in he pastures and fencing around them so that the animals can get some snacks when the fruit falls. All of the goats and cows are at least two years off. So getting my fences up and trees planted would come first.

I will try and get in touch with my county and see what they say as far as the soil goes.

 

[NH homesteader]

My first suggestion would be to try some goat meat and see if you like that as well as sheep! I have 5 Acres, but am not yet able to use it all (working on that!). We have goats, pigs, chickens and turkeys. I've thought about sheep and may have some in the future but I am holding off until I have more land and more of a handle on my other animals before I get any more. I do not have enough land for cows. They eat an incredible amount of food, even the minis, and minis are expensive to buy and harder to find a bull to breed. Sticking with milking goats may be better for you, at least in the short term.

I see people studding out goats all the time... But... You have to be very careful about diseases, and I wouldn't personally do that. If you find that right person with a clean herd then maybe.

As for your land, sheep and cows would likely get more use out of it as goats are browsers more than graders but I have no idea of grass types or anything.

As for what you will get more use out of... I think goats. You can milk a sheep but it's not going to be as productive as a goat. Plus if you get wool sheep and have no use for the wool, that's just an added expense to have them sheared. And goats tend to have more people oriented, friendly personalities than sheep. Not always though.

Sorry if I'm rambling, haven't had my coffee yet!

 

[Baymule]

I echo what others have said......you have big dreams for a small space. Not bashing your dreams, we all have to dream don't we? But here goes.... skip the cows. I've had cows, love cows, would love to have them again, but only have 8 acres and that is not enough space for a cow to fart in, much less for grazing.

So, you want milk and meat. Good plan. Condense down a little bit. I would vote for goats, either LaManchas or Nubians. Keep a meat buck to breed them to. Mytonics are meat goats, but mature slowly which means more feeding, longer. Boers have a lot of parasite issues (from what I've read-no personal experience) Savannah is another meat breed. Tex Master might be the way for you to go, it is a composite breed of Boer and Mytonic and reportably a very good breed. You could keep dairy does, a meat buck and slaughter the off spring. If you need replacement does, buy them, don't try to keep mixed purpose kids.

Chickens and rabbits. Combine them. Build a rabbitry/chicken house. I once kept show rabbits and had them in hanging wire cages. Hutches have a wood frame, that's where the rabbits ALWAYS choose to poop and the poop has to be cleaned out. Wire bottoms....poo falls through. The wire tops come in handy when cold nights threaten the new born kits-place one of those auto drop lights with the aluminum reflectors on top of the cage over the nest box and babies stay nice and warm. Build a walk in coop adjacent to the rabbitry that you can close off to keep the chickens out when you want to. The chickens will keep the poo turned, peck and eat fly larva and dropped feed. You will have to train the chickens to go back to their coop at night and not roost on top of the cages, but it can be done. The rabbits will get ear mites from the chickens mites, but this is easily managed, a few drops of mineral oil in each ear once or twice a month takes care of this.

So now you have cut down the number of animals and can probably squeeze in a few of what you want and have plenty of milk and meat.

For grass, look at giant callie Bermuda. It makes a thick sod and will grow to 2 feet high. It regrows fast, but you must maintain the rotation in order to give it time to grow back and keep them off in winter unless you plant winter rye grass. You could spread your manure on it and improve your soil.

http://bermudagrass.com/info/giant.html#.WGUvdYWcEqQ

http://www.wbseedco.com/bermudagrass.htm

http://hancockseed.com/giant-bermuda-grass-seed-hulled-raw-50-lb-bag-8.html

 

[ShadowsFIAL]

You guys do not need to keep apologizing haha I am not that easily offended. Dream big but realize reality

My rabbits I am going to have their stool falling into bins I can collect and give to friends and put in my compost pile in the garden. I will have around 24 rabbit cages, which will all not be in use. Some will be grow out pens and such and will be empty part of the year. I also do not plan to raise any rabbit litters in the winter at all. Just through the spring-fall. That large I am thinking about changing it to 4 breeding pens instead and perhaps I cam move it down closer to the house and I can open the back up for more grazing. So far my dogs seem scared of the sheep or just interested in sniffing them. If they all get along with goats I would love to let the goats in the back yard as well to let them eat back there.

I REEEEEALLY want to have a dairy cow. Even if I have to supplement feed and keep her in a bedded stall in the winter. I decided to get a cow instead of having a horse, or do you guys just really think a cow is a bad idea? I was going to keep her in the back yard where we have cow neighbors that she can talk with and where she can come up to the back door for attention and such. Even if I can only have one I would like to have a family pet/dairy cow. I also would be interested in showing her.

My husband is the one keen on the myotonic goats, if we did get a male, I would debate on getting two so they can keep each other company while they are away from the girls, and just get a nubian and a myotonic, and then the same with the does.

This was the pasture blend I was thinking about for the goats:

Southern Subtropics Goat Forage Blend
This blend produces a pasture that will contain approximately:

• 45% Bermudagrass
• 25% Forage Chicory
• 10% Alfalfa
• 10% Forage Pea
• 10% White Clover

I live in the Dallas/Fort worth area, just 40 minutes north of fort worth.

 

[Latestarter]

So far my dogs seem scared of the sheep or just interested in sniffing them. If they all get along with goats I would love to let the goats in the back yard as well to let them eat back there.

So you already have sheep? Are you wanting to keep the sheep and goats together? Some do this with no issue while others recommend against it. I have no personal experience either way.

WRT your grass seed mix, Really... contact your extension agent. They are supposed to be there to help and it doesn't cost you anything to use their services. Just because that's a good "forage blend" doesn't mean that it will grow or thrive in your soil. Before you plant, you NEED to know what you are planting in... You need the soil right to grow a pasture right. You'll likely have to add lime and fertilizer, and water... lots of water. And the summer sun/heat/drought will likely kill it all off on top of your animals eating it/trampling it. Another thing you really need to be mindful of (as already stated) is that goats are primarily BROWSERS, NOT GRAZERS... they prefer to eat browse; leaves, twigs, pine needles, bark, any ornamental planting you DON'T want them to eat, etc. not grass. Sheep are primarily grazers, but many will also browse given the opportunity.

Let's be real/honest... If you really want a cow, then you'll end up getting a cow (or 2). On ideal pasture an acre might be able to feed several cows, but that's with the understanding that they have more than just that one acre to feed from. You will be providing any cow or cows you get with 1/2 acre or less, probably substantially less. Cows will not eat grass where they've pooped. So with no where else to move them to, they will eventually have pooped everywhere within that very small area and will not eat from the ground. In addition, a cow's hooves do a LOT of damage to the vegetation they walk on. In no time at all, you will have nothing but a dirt pen to keep them in. You will have to provide all their feed. A cow eats much, much more than a few goats or sheep. A cow also provides much more manure than a goat/sheep, and in the form of wet patties vice dry pellets. For the dairy cow to provide dairy, it also needs to provide a calf. Your best bet there would be AI.

Another very important thing to keep in mind... I mean as in potentially dangerous... If you have cows and they come into heat, if you have any neighbor within say < 2-3 miles and they have a bull. If that bull catches a whiff of those cows in heat, it WILL try to get to them to breed them. If the bull is not extremely well fenced, you may find him in your back yard with your cows. If you have mini cows and the bull is full sized, he could kill the cow or the calf produced may be to big to birth and you'll lose the cow and the calf. You might want to check on the local availability of mini cow semen for AI as well.

 

[ShadowsFIAL]

I don't have sheep yet, but my sister has three at her house and I have taken my dogs over there. I can tell you that my two male shepherds also like donkeys and will lick them and pull sticker burrs off them, but my female is terrified of them haha. I am hoping to try and set up a sprinkler system somehow so that I can water my "pasture" but have covers or barriers around the heads to keep the animals from damaging them. What are good browsing options to plant for goats that I can barricade part of the plant off to keep it growing, or would it be better to do temporary electric fencing around things to let them recover. This is what I was talking to my husband about that the goats don't really want to eat grass, they like to chew bushes and such, but he swears up and down that his friends had 5 goats in their 40x20 side yard and that they ate all the grass down, then they would move them out, and then back when the grass was 4' high. If goats are the only thing he is going to ask for aside from his car shop I kind of wanted to give it to him. But i really did like the idea of playing with Sheltand wool and trying to make things with it, not to mention that I heard that they were decent to milk, and they come in so many colors.

If I am going to baisically drylot the cow, what would be a good option to do for bedding? Sand I am guessing so that I can rake it? I found a breeder in texas who sells AI Straws and was thinking about doing it that way. I plan to do at least a 4' fence that is goat/sheep fence, with wood board on top to make it look like a post & board fence but with the wiring to keep the little critters in as well as my dogs. Would that be sufficient to keep a bull out? I believe that the cows in the pasture behind us are all beef heifers, but who knows if they rotate what is in there.

Talking about the fencing, is this idea decent enough to keep goats in?

 

[Green Acres Farm]

I don't know anything about this or cows, but I have heard of miniature dairy cow breeds. Would that work?