Please tell me about founder/laminitis

[miss_thenorth]

Last night at feeding time, my one horse was in the barn while the other one was still out on pasture. They are up to 8 hours on pasture. The night prior, my dd forgot to close the gate so they got 3 or 4 extra hours before we got them in to the paddock.

So last night, I though it odd that Jigs was in the barn instead of filling his face, and I watched him. He is favouring his front left hoof. so we checked. It is a bit warm, not hot, but warmer than the other hoof. No sign of an abcsess.

He's still favouring it today. So, now I'm paranoid about founder. Could the extra hours out on pasture the previous night have casued founder?

Can it just be one hoof, or would it affect both hooves. He is not standing like a rocking horse, so I guess that is a good sign.

No other signs of injury, but he is definitely limping.

Any advice, things to look for, watch out for??

I've done some reading on laminitis, but I'm not sure if it is or isn't.

Thanks.

 

[michickenwrangler]

Laminitis is inflammation of the laminae on a horse's hoof. Founder is when the coffin bone rotates.

It is very possible that a few extra hours on pasture could have caused your horse laminitis, but it doesn't like like he foundered. Mild cases often rebound quickly if the laminae haven't stretched too much. Keep him off grain and some mild exercise would probably help. MSM or a bute tablet may help take down swelling but call vet first to ask.

My mare's laminae stretched about 5 years ago, due to a combination of new pasture and switching farriers (new farrier's wife went into labor early and it was an extremely difficult labor and doc thought one or both might die) so he had to cancel an appt and it was a week later before he could get to my horse. The mare has now go on to do 200 cumulative CTR miles since then barefoot.

It seems like you caught it early, so hopefully it won't be too bad.

 

[Chirpy]

Yes to what michickenwrangler said. My horse had to be worked up to being out on pasture every spring or he would have problems. It would literally take me well over a month (closer to two months when we'd had lots of rain in the spring) to slowly work him up to spending full days out there. Don't put them out in the morning, feed them hay then and put them out later in the day when you are starting to put them out to pasture.

 

[patandchickens]

Laminitis from grass is usually symmetrical (2 or 4 feet). Both statistically-speaking, and in terms of common sense, the likeliest thing is that it's a bruise or coming abscess.

Someone experienced with hooftesters could quite possibly locate the source of the pain, which in many cases would rule out laminitis right then and there; if you are really concerned you might see if your farrier could drop by (if he is the type to be good enough at that sort of thing to make his opinion worth believing ). Or I suppose call the vet, if you are genuinely concerned and want a professional opinion.

On the face of it, though, from what you've said, unless the horse has a HISTORY of laminitis, I would just chalk it up to a bruise or abscess and keep an eye on it. Often a bruise or abscess can be encouraged to resolve more quickly by judicious poulticing, or by soaking the foot a couple times a day in hot water with as much epsom salts as will dissolve in it.

Good luck, hope he's feeling better soon,

Pat

 

[goodhors]

I would disagree with both an abcessed or horse with laminitis getting forced exercise. If horse doesn't want to move, I would not force it unless they were in a bad location. Something like wet or cold, not wanting to come inside so they don't chill.

Abcess is usually a very sudden onset of pain, lameness, from being non-lame. Fine this AM, lame with one leg hanging by evening. Soaking in hot water with epsom salts can induce the abcess to burst. You do want to have a nice cleaned out hole to allow good drainage, so horse does not re-abcess shortly.

Might be something else, twisted leg, stone bruise, stepped on something sharp. Probably should soak the hoof, get it clean to see what you find.

Cold soaking of the hoof is almost always helpful in lameness issues that are not abcesses. Best thing is to get Vet involved if you can't pinpoint the problem.

The Vet can do X-rays, see if there is any rotation in the coffin bone. You can do hoof treatments if there is rotation, to stabilize the coffin bone, prevent further rotation. The rotation is what pulls the laminae apart.

However without X-rays, you can't tell if there is any rotation. You don't know what you are dealing with. Again, I would NOT force horse to exercise, probably not give him pain killers either. If his hoof is having problems he needs to feel the pain, preventing his overworking that hoof. Sounds mean, but he could do more inside damage moving around vigorously while pain free or much reduced, if hoof is really rotating. Yes, not common, but they can have problems in only one hoof.

If horse is having laminitis problems, a deep layer of fine sand in a stall is helpful. Many horses with severe problems just lay down, take the weight off the hooves. When standing on the sand, hoof has sand worked up in all the crevices of lower hoof, helps support the parts. Again, there are other measures you can do if coffin bone is rotating. Have you a skilled farrier you can call after the Vet gives you a diagnosis? This is where farrier can help you best.

Hope you can get a specific problem soon, so you can go to work on helping the horse.

 

[patandchickens]

I have to agree that exercise (as opposed to just turnout) is a Bad Idea for a lame horse unless you know for darn sure exactly what the problem is and that it's the kind of thing that exercise helps with. I would definitely not exercise -- not even 'mildly' -- a horse in whom I had any suspicion of laminitis. Whether to bute or not depends on the particular horse and situation, IMO.

Abcess is usually a very sudden onset of pain, lameness, from being non-lame. Fine this AM, lame with one leg hanging by evening.

While that is the stereotypical 'classic' abscess situation -- and the one that worries people the most, til they figure out what the problem is (first thought tends to be 'oh no, he's got a broken leg!'), it is very, very common for bruises and abscesses to be more gradual and subtle. So lack of sudden-severe onset does not in any way argue against it being a bruise or abscess, IME.

Just sayin',

Pat

 

[adoptedbyachicken]

I agree this is not sounding like laminitis. An injury or an abscess is suspect, and being the foot is warm an abscess is more likely. Not all abscess make a horse lame, and few are dead lame with them. Most just limp a bit. Thrush is the other infection you should look for, if it gets deep in the central sulcus it can make the foot hot and the horse lame.

For horses prone to laminitis the BEST time to let them out on grass is early am. The sugar content of the grass is way down then. Grass creates and stores sugar all day with sunlight and uses it all night in darkness. Have your horses off grass by 10 am. When having hay custom cut for laminitic horses we request an early am cut, first light, and so need an area and time not subject to heavy dew. Extra turning is often needed even so.

If your concerned with them getting too much grass a grazing muzzle is a great thing.

 

[miss_thenorth]

Thanks guys, I think I was more or less panicking the other day, not knowing what is was.and needed clarification on laminitis just to know whether I should consider it or not Right now, i think he has some bruising. he is limping, but not as bad. We have soaked his foot also to see if there is anything more was can see, but he looks fine. Maybe it was my imagination too, but I cannot notice any heat in his hoof anymore either.

But he is prone to abscesses.so i am watching for it. No thrush, all smells fine. In the two years we have had him, he has had two abscesses, the first one made him lame, the second, the only way we knew it was to see where it blew out near the frog.

DD and hubby went out for a trail ride last weekend, and it was a gravelly, rocky area. He did have some pebbles stuck in near his white line.

DD and I are supposed to be going out on a trail ride this weekend, but it has been pitched. With Jigs still limping, even though it is not as bad, he gets a free pass.

At the very least, I now have a clear understanding of laminitis and founder. Hopefully I will never have to experience it.

 

[lupinfarm]

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[patandchickens]

Founder can quite often be unilateral

I'm not sure on the basis of what you're saying this, but I have to strenuously disagree based on having worked extensively with horses for most of my 45 years. If you don't believe me, read some veterinary or 'popularized vet info for horse owners' type stuff.

It is quite rare to have laminitis (which I assume is what you mean, rather than founder specifically) in only one foot, except in the particular instance of unequal weightbearing due to an injury to the other foot of the pair. (For instance that is what got Barbaro, in the end - having been putting essentially all his hind-end weight on his non-shattered hindleg, that 'good' leg eventually developed severe laminitis and he had to be put down.)

there is a horse on the next road near me that founders unilaterally a couple times every spring. Often a horse that is foundering unilaterally will stand with the affected foot out in front and will be leaning in the entire body out to the rear.

I will bet you any amount of Timbits (or anything else) that this is NOT laminitis, but rather a flare-up of some thing else such as a navicular region soreness.

"Pointing" such as you describe is a generic response to a sore foot, not a specific indicator of laminitis.

Just sayin', for the benefit of others who may be reading the thread to learn more about the subject,

Pat