Puppies and snakes and coyotes-- Oh, my!

[LMK17]

I'm trying to figure out when it's best to start letting our puppies out at night. They're 5 months old, German Shepherd mixes, about 35-40#. They're outside farm dogs. Not LGD but they do serve as a deterrent to some predators. We have free range chickens, goats, and cattle.

Issue #1 is venomous snakes. It seems our new place came with a healthy resident population of copperheads. :/ We've been here just a tad over 1 month. Within 2 weeks of arriving, one of the pups got bitten by a copperhead not 10' from the front door. Fortunately, she is recovering uneventfully, but I'm sure that's an experience that none of us wishes to repeat. I was hoping the snake was a one-off, and since we killed it, I was cautiously optimistic that we wouldn't find any more so close to the house. Of course, that wasn't meant to be. We shot a second copperhead a couple weeks later in almost the exact same location as the first. I also hear that the previous owner found at least one rattlesnake on the property. And the neighbors alerted us that they recently found a coral snake in the creek along the front property line.

We're also surrounded by coyotes. We have good fences-- 8' deer fences with barbed wire top and bottom all along the wooded property next to us-- but I'm not sure it would keep out a truly determined pack of coyotes. The fences along the road and farm next door are less awesome but still OK. We have a full perimeter of hot wire. So far, though, our goats have been safe, so that's good news.

Given their small size and age, I pen up the pups at night. Actually, I've been penning them at sundown since the snakes start coming out then. But I have no interest in confining them every night for the rest of their lives. However, when would you all suggest we start letting them roam at night? I assume they'll eventually reach a size that the coyotes are less of a concern, but what about the snakes? Will they eventually learn to leave them alone? Or do we just need to live with the inevitability that they'll get bitten again-- and hope for the best? I am considering the rattlesnake vaccine, but the vets I've spoken to have mixed feelings about it. Kinda frustrating.

 

[Latestarter]

So I'm guessing this all means that you have closed on the place successfully and are living there now... Congratulations! Aside from the snakes and coyotes, I hope it's everything you were hoping it would be. At 5 months old, I'd be thinking it's fine to start letting the dogs be free at night. Of course you'll want to watch them for a week or two to make sure they stay around your place and don't decide to wander off on to other folks' property (and get themselves shot). With luck, the dogs will become snake killers, or alternately will be scared of them and bark at them to let you know there's one about. How'd it eventually work out between them and the older dog(s) that they didn't get along with? As I recall, one of the pups got attacked. Most times, coyotes won't mess with dogs if there's more than one. If they're going to try to take down a dog, it's normally a single dog. And they normally won't attack close to the house, they'll try to lure the dog away and then take it down. I (would not) don't think I'd give my dogs a rattlesnake vaccine... just me.

 

[Bruce]

From the fencing description I don't think there is a concern with the dogs going walkabout.

The snakes come OUT at night?? I thought being cold blooded they holed up at night and come out during the day. Is there such a thing as snake traps?

 

[Baymule]

The snakes come OUT at night?? I thought being cold blooded they holed up at night and come out during the day. Is there such a thing as snake traps?

I am so glad that you joined this forum. You almost always give me a good giggle. Snakes in Texas are smart enough to NOT come out during the day, their blood would come darn nigh to boiling-probably not what they desire. With daytime temperatures in the high 90's and over 100* it's a sure bet they are holed up until nightfall when it cools off to um......80 degrees?

 

[Baymule]

We have 4 dogs, 2 Great Pyrenees, 1 black Lab/Great Dane and 1 Australian Shepherd. The female GP, Paris, is death on snakes. She's killed 2 copperheads and half dozen rat snakes in the 3 years we've been here. She kills them over and over again, until I find a piece here, a piece there, scattered all around. The male GP, Trip has neither killed a snake or been bitten by one. Both the other 2 have been bitten by copperheads. So I guess we have at least ONE smart dog, 2 dummies and 1 still uncommitted.

When one of our dogs gets snake bit, I give them benedryl, a baby aspirin and an Arnicare pill for pain. Repeat every 4 hours until the dog is better. It usually takes 2-4 doses for them to recover. Haven't seen any rattlesnakes.

If you do have real good fences, get a couple of pigs. Pen the dogs and goats at night. Open the gates and give the pigs free run of the place and they will eat the snakes. In the morning, pen the pigs back up.

 

[Baymule]

You can also make a snake trap by rolling up chicken wire, semi loosely and laying it where the snakes might travel. Up against a building or chicken coop are good spots. The snake can crawl in, but can't get out. Kill the snake and give to the pigs.

@goatgurl where is that picture of your pig enjoying a snake dinner?

 

[goatgurl]

I have had quite a year for snakes. both my farm dogs were bitten by a copperhead couple of weeks ago. emma the 14 year old 15# terrier type girl was pretty sick for a couple of days but JJ the English shepherd was fine by the next morning. emma was bitten first so i'm pretty sure she got the bigger dose of venom. both are back to their old selves now, thank Heaven. that copperhead was right at the bottom of my back steps and I would have stepped right on it as I was coming out the door if the girls hadn't jumped in front of me. good girls!! that is the 4th copperhead I've killed here this summer in my yard. my barn and hen house has been alive with black snakes, I've lost probably 80-100 baby chicks and ducks to them. I think that your pups are probably old enough to leave out at night. I don't think they will be bothered if they can't get out of the fences. be sure you keep some Benadryl and baby aspirin to give your dogs if they do bet bitten again. emma has fought snakes for her entire 14 years and this is the first time she has been bitten. after I lost so many babies to the black snakes I finally resorted to killing a couple which I hated to do sometimes war is war and the snakes started it... this is the picture baymule was talking about. this snake was in the nest where one of my mama ducks saw sitting on 15 eggs and by the time the snake was done there were 2 left. it also cleaned out the nest of one of my broodie hens so enough is enough. I have free range ducks and chickens and I have actually seen them chase, grab and eat smaller snakes. and yes the pig enjoyed his snack. @Bruce, you crack me up. yes snakes come out at night around here ya wouldn't them to burn their belly would you. I never go out after dark in the summer without a good flashlight because i'm not wanting to get zapped. day in the life of....

 

[Simpleterrier]

I would be careful letting two dogs lose at the same time if not fully in closed. Two can get in more trouble then one.

 

[Bruce]

Glad I can bring some levity to your lives girls

Having removed a total of 7 groundhogs this year, I wouldn't hesitate to take out those black snakes. Not that I enjoy doing in the GHs, in fact I feel badly about it. But they are destructive to the barn foundations (such that they are) and run tunnels where people and animals can break through and get hurt. If only they would hang out away from the house, barns and garden!

 

[Mike CHS]

I'm going to have to try that rolled up chicken wire since we have a couple in places that I don't want them.