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Question about dewormers

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by Sasmith, Oct 12, 2017 at 6:09 AM.

  1. Oct 12, 2017 at 6:09 AM
    Sasmith

    Sasmith Exploring the pasture

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    Does anyone know if using a chemical dewormer like cydectin will mess up a goat/sheep's natural ability to fight off parasites in the future?
     
    Baymule likes this.
  2. Oct 12, 2017 at 7:21 AM
    Hens and Roos

    Hens and Roos Herd Master

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  3. Oct 12, 2017 at 8:05 AM
    Sasmith

    Sasmith Exploring the pasture

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    Thanks I'm not exactly tech savvy and I'm still trying to figure out how to navigate these things
     
  4. Oct 12, 2017 at 8:20 AM
    farmerjan

    farmerjan Loving the herd life

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    This is not proven or scientific...... we have found that if you get an animal cleaned out of a worm load, it will seem to have a better response to any kind of worm preventatives in the future including natural and their own body's response.
    That said, a couple of questions. Is this an animal that is new to you? If you are bringing home an animal that has a worm load, and you worm it; make sure you do it where you can basically clean up the manure like a dirt lot. Not every worm or egg will be killed by the worming and you do not want any of that dropping into the pastures where eggs can hatch and larvae climb onto the grass stems to be ingested by a grazing animal.

    You may find that an animal that has a worm load, will be more susceptible to worms in the future. Some do not have much resistance. We have been culling our sheep over the years for three things. First off we breed White Texas Dall sheep so horns on the rams are most important. The second thing is foot problems. The third is worm susceptibility. If the lambs are wormy, and they often get them, if they are treated and then seem to get them again or seem to be chronic problems, they go to market.

    We also use DE in our feed and mineral and it has stopped alot of the problems. I am a big believer in it and we have had random fecals done over the years at the vets for worms/eggs in our sheep and cattle. In fact we seldom ever worm the cattle unless they are a purchased animal. We did worm a group of feeder calves that had some other problems and it has helped them to get going better, but that is the exception. They will be sold shortly and the barn where they have been coming in to feed will get cleaned and it will get put out on a crop field where no animal will be grazing (no fences) and will fertilize the ground for next years crops.
    Our sheep flock is basically a closed one since you seldom ever see them unless you go specifically to a breeder, so we are not reintroducing problems into ours.
     
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  5. Oct 12, 2017 at 9:08 AM
    Sheepshape

    Sheepshape True BYH Addict

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    I don't know of any evidence that worming an animal will reduce their 'resistance' to future episodes.

    Overuse of wormers, under-dosing and failure to rotate wormer types, (clear, white etc) will lead to wormer resistance. If possible, get faecal egg counts and consult your vet as to what local knowledge there is on wormer resistance.
     
  6. Oct 12, 2017 at 9:29 AM
    Sasmith

    Sasmith Exploring the pasture

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    Basically we have a herd of pretty much feral sheep milk goats and one remaining Boer goat. I'd love to see them as sustainable as possible so I don't want them dependent on chemical wormers but we just can't afford to let nature have its way. I guess my question is if worm them now will I absolutely have to continue in the future because that stuff destroyed their natural antibodies?
     
  7. Oct 12, 2017 at 10:14 AM
    Sheepshape

    Sheepshape True BYH Addict

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    Short answer is 'No'. Sheep and goats don't develop blood-type antibodies to worms. The resistance develops in the gut which somehow becomes less permeable to eggs/larvae etc. Older animals become more resistant to worms and will need to be wormed much less frequently than young animals who have not acquired this immunity from contact with worm eggs. As worm eggs will still be present on pasture, animals will still acquire resistance after worming.

    Just use wormers cautiously, and ideally as dictated by faecal egg count.
     
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  8. Oct 12, 2017 at 10:16 AM
    Sasmith

    Sasmith Exploring the pasture

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    10-4 thanks for the info I guess I'm going to go ahead and hook the goats up then. The sheep are on their own until I can build some sort of corral to catch them. Any pics of your Dall sheep? Our herd sire from the looks of him is St. Croix/Jacobs and who knows what else but he has 2 horns on one side and nothing on the other kind of silly looking but he looks very regal from he good side
     
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  9. Oct 12, 2017 at 10:32 AM
    Southern by choice

    Southern by choice Herd Master

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    Short answer - No.

    Keep in mind parasite resistance is also a heritable trait.
    Another thing to consider is understanding HOW to deworm. You must do a follow up- generally 3x 10 days apart will eradicate the parasites.

    Many deworm once and then they don't understand why their worm load is still high or they think their dewormer doesn't work.
    That is how you build resistance.

    Think of it this way- you have an infection and the dr puts you on a 10 day course of antibiotics- you take a few days worth feel better and stop taking the med.... you have now put yourself in a bad place- one- the infection isn't gone because you didn't follow through and two the antibiotic that was working may not work because you built the resistance.

    This is the best site that you can learn from as far as parasite and control
    It can help you to understand how to not build superworms and refugia, which is necessary.
    https://www.wormx.info/

    It is run by the leading researchers in parasite control- American Consortium for Small Ruminant Parasite Control


    We had a doe that came in years ago- we quarantined her on a dry lot- we knew she was extremely loaded ( we run fecals here) it just was a wet bad year in the region- the doe was awesome though- we dewormed a full course with Safeguard and Ivermectin. Once she was cleared up no issues. She is one of our most parasite resistant goats on our farm.
     
  10. Oct 12, 2017 at 10:49 AM
    Sasmith

    Sasmith Exploring the pasture

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    I just didn't know if they were more like antibiotics or chemo that just wiped out everything.