Questions about raising bummer lambs

[Goat Whisperer]

Yep, I'm posting in the sheep section

I am throwing the idea around of raising 2 bummer lambs for the freezer. We may freshen as many as 10 does come 2016. We should have lots of MILK! I am not a complete newbie to sheep, a family member had 2 jacob sheep so I do know a little bit about sheep. I will NOT keep any sheep/lambs with my goats so they will have to be off site but will be able to check/feed them several times a day.

Here are my questions-

I know sheep milk has more fat than goat milk. The goats I have a good amount for fat, nut not as much as sheep. Will the lambs need more goat milk then they would sheep milk?

How much milk do they start to drink when first born? What is the max a lamb will drink before weaning? 1 gal a day?

How often do you feed them? (milk)

I am not doing heatlamps... How will they do if I get a day old lamb in February? I can get a dog coat but I would rather do nothing.

It seems like pneumonia is a huge problem in lambs, of course this is reading on forums where people always post their problems. It also seems like sheep are always trying to kill themselves.....
What is the reality?

The jacobs lived completely off the land, will I have to grain and hay them? I know they will grow bigger with grain but do they REALLY need it?

If they do need grain, how much? 1/4lb, 1/2lb, 1lb daily?

When do you slaughter? Age or by weight?

How much does a bummer lamb sell for? I know the price will be vary be region so it wont be exact.

The breed of sheep will probably be katahdin or a katahdin cross. Seems like we have a bunch of them around here.


I'm sure I will have more questions later.

TIA!

 

[Latestarter]

Have seen the term before... What exactly is a "bummer" lamb?
"

 

[Goat Whisperer]

I have heard many call lambs that a ewe rejected a bummer lamb.... Maybe I don't have that term right

(sheeples correct me if I'm wrong!)

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

I have herd 'bummer' in relation to orphaned/rejected calves, lambs, goats,... so that's what I call em.

 

[promiseacres]

Lambs need fed 3-4 times a day until about 1 to 2 weeks I use a bucket system from premier1, I filled it with their daily amount with a ice pack in it. They drank 20 to 30 Oz daily, I kept hay available and offered grain at 3-4 weeks. I would keep in a crate somewhere warm until 2-3 weeks if you're wanting February lambs. Katahidin bummer lambs prices I have seen are $ 75-125. Since you have goats it MAY be somewhat cost effective but time intensive. Probably worth paying an average of $150 to buy a weaned lamb then raise. My sheep are smaller so I don't process until 13-15 months. But many meat people's goal is 5 months. Hope this helps.

 

[purplequeenvt]

I am throwing the idea around of raising 2 bummer lambs for the freezer. We may freshen as many as 10 does come 2016. We should have lots of MILK! I am not a complete newbie to sheep, a family member had 2 jacob sheep so I do know a little bit about sheep. I will NOT keep any sheep/lambs with my goats so they will have to be off site but will be able to check/feed them several times a day.

Here are my questions-

I know sheep milk has more fat than goat milk. The goats I have a good amount for fat, nut not as much as sheep. Will the lambs need more goat milk then they would sheep milk?

They should do perfectly fine on your goats milk. Goats milk is considered by a lot of people to be the universal milk replacer.

How much milk do they start to drink when first born? What is the max a lamb will drink before weaning? 1 gal a day?

How often do you feed them? (milk)

I like to feed newborns smaller amounts more frequently. They'll drink a few ounces at a time for the first week and then up to 16 oz 3 times a day. Once they are 6 weeks old, I generally reduce them to 2 bottles a day.

I am not doing heatlamps... How will they do if I get a day old lamb in February? I can get a dog coat but I would rather do nothing.

Depends on how cold it is. We are in VT and we rarely do coats. We use heat lamps in the lambing jugs for the first 2 or 3 days if it is really cold. Once they are loose in the barn, they don't usually get any extra heat.

It seems like pneumonia is a huge problem in lambs, of course this is reading on forums where people always post their problems. It also seems like sheep are always trying to kill themselves.....
What is the reality?

We have never had a big problem with pneumonia. Some people say sheep are just looking for a place to die, but I haven't found that true. With LIVEstock you will always have DEADstock to some extent. Of course sheep will have different health issues than goats, but if you are looking for Katahdins, than you shouldn't have to worry about some of the issues that you might get with wool breeds (ie flystrike).

The jacobs lived completely off the land, will I have to grain and hay them? I know they will grow bigger with grain but do they REALLY need it?

No. If they have good pasture, they shouldn't need much, if any extra grain.

If they do need grain, how much? 1/4lb, 1/2lb, 1lb daily?

I'd feed them a little bit of grain just to get them friendly and easy to handle, but Katahdins really shouldn't need a lot of supplementation.

When do you slaughter? Age or by weight?

We base slaughter time on condition of the lambs and when we have customers. Generally speaking, we send lambs to the butcher in October/November.

How much does a bummer lamb sell for? I know the price will be vary be region so it wont be exact.

This will depend on breed, gender (to some extent), and age. We don't normally sell our bummers unless they are ram lambs that we don't want to keep for show/breeding prospects.

The breed of sheep will probably be katahdin or a katahdin cross. Seems like we have a bunch of them around here.

That would be a good choice for meat lambs that are raised on pasture.

 

[purplequeenvt]

Have seen the term before... What exactly is a "bummer" lamb?
"

A "bummer" is an orphaned (through death or rejection) lamb.

 

[SheepGirl]

I know sheep milk has more fat than goat milk. The goats I have a good amount for fat, nut not as much as sheep. Will the lambs need more goat milk then they would sheep milk?

I've always used lamb milk replacer for feeding lambs and also my goat kid. I plan on using goat milk for future lambs since I bought a dairy goat. They won't need the added volume of extra milk, merely just extra fat. Maybe you can separate cream and add it into milk to make milk with more fat in it?

How much milk do they start to drink when first born? What is the max a lamb will drink before weaning? 1 gal a day?

I always offer a bottle only two times a day, starting from day one. My mom likes to offer them a bottle in between feedings. I make a 16 oz bottle and let them finish as much as they can until they lose interest. I wean my lambs at 30 days old (or thereabouts, whenever they've been chewing cud for a few days) and they only get 32 oz of milk a day, split into two feedings.

How often do you feed them? (milk)

I bottle feed two times a day, starting from day one.

I am not doing heatlamps... How will they do if I get a day old lamb in February? I can get a dog coat but I would rather do nothing.

I lamb in late Feb/early March and my lambs did fine as long as they were dried off. They shiver a bit, but they stay warm.

It seems like pneumonia is a huge problem in lambs, of course this is reading on forums where people always post their problems. It also seems like sheep are always trying to kill themselves.....
What is the reality?

Knock on wood, I've never experienced a case of pneumonia in my personal flock at my house in the past three years, nor have I experienced a case of pneumonia at my neighbor's farm in the six years prior to my flock coming to my house. In fact, the sheep rarely get sick. And we've never had any 'freak' killings... usually just parasites were the culprit.

The jacobs lived completely off the land, will I have to grain and hay them? I know they will grow bigger with grain but do they REALLY need it?

Growing animals need extra nutrients to meet their nutritional needs, whether that be in the form of high quality, nutrient-dense hay or grain.

If they do need grain, how much? 1/4lb, 1/2lb, 1lb daily?

I start with a handful of grain so they get the taste of it (replacing it 1-2x a day because the lambs won't eat 'old' feed) and then I work them up to 1/4 lb a day until weaning off the bottle and I then wean them off the grain because even my dam-fed lambs don't get grain.

When do you slaughter? Age or by weight?

I've never slaughtered any of my lambs, and it goes more of by the amount of fat and frame size. A 100 lb Texel lamb at four months old will be extremely fat but a 100 lb Suffolk lamb at four months old will be lean to a good weight.

How much does a bummer lamb sell for? I know the price will be vary be region so it wont be exact.

Free to $150. Depends on the breeder and how highly they think of their stock/how much a bummer lamb is a burden to them.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

Thanks for all the info!

I am looking for bottle lambs because I am going to have lots of milk!
I have bottle and trough fed a handful of kids before, only 20 or so. Not a huge number but I am not a total newbie to that aspect lol.

I would probably try to get march-may lambs. I need to talk to some of the folks around here to see when they lamb.

I DID think about the lamb in February a little bit after posting.... I'm sure they would need a little something to stay warm but I'm not building them a heated barn

I am thinking katahdins because they seem to be in abundance here, I'm not looking to breed or keep anything.

I have had experience with wool sheep and honestly it wasn't a good one. They were always very healthy and never had more then a few eggs on a slide but were pretty evil. I don't want anything to do with wool sheep for a long long time.

My concerns with anything wool sheep are:
1) They will just yet out of the hotwire (5 strands) like the other sheep. I am not rescuing sheep off the highway again!
2) Tail docking, don't know how and don't wanna learn

We will not band ANYTHING here.
3) Flystrike
4) Seems like wool sheep have more issues with parasites.
5) They would need more grain
6) Their brain would randomly drop out of their head

What do y'all think about keeping them on milk longer? I know some goats breeders that keep their kids on milk for 10 months because they don't have use for the milk but need to keep the does in milk for DHIR, LA & showing. The kids grow very fast and put on a lot of weight (dairy goats). I think it could cut down on grain (if I had to feed any) and still get them nice and fat!

 

[purplequeenvt]

Thanks for all the info!

I am looking for bottle lambs because I am going to have lots of milk!
I have bottle and trough fed a handful of kids before, only 20 or so. Not a huge number but I am not a total newbie to that aspect lol.

I would probably try to get march-may lambs. I need to talk to some of the folks around here to see when they lamb.

I DID think about the lamb in February a little bit after posting.... I'm sure they would need a little something to stay warm but I'm not building them a heated barn

They don't need a heated barn, just a dry out of the wind place.

I am thinking katahdins because they seem to be in abundance here, I'm not looking to breed or keep anything.

I have had experience with wool sheep and honestly it wasn't a good one. They were always very healthy and never had more then a few eggs on a slide but were pretty evil. I don't want anything to do with wool sheep for a long long time.

I think Katahdins are a good choice for your setup, but just so you know, not all sheep are like the ones you had before. Yours were Jacobs which, in my experience, have a reputation for being "feral". Obviously there are exceptions, but most Jacobs don't stop to think about a situation before panicking and leaving. Personally, I think that Jacobs are evil. A good friend of mine has them and when I help her show, I swear, those sheep TRY to hit me with their horns.

I think if you got a slightly more domesticated breed, you would be happier with them. And though, for what you are wanting to do, I think Katahdins will work well for you.

My concerns with anything wool sheep are:

1) They will just yet out of the hotwire (5 strands) like the other sheep. I am not rescuing sheep off the highway again!

My wool sheep stay in 5 strands of poly-wire.
2) Tail docking, don't know how and don't wanna learn

We will not band ANYTHING here.

Curious why you don't want to band anything? In 15 years of banding tails and testicles, we have not (so far) had any issues related to banding. I've banded hundreds of lambs over the years and I always do it with the first 72 hours. The first 24 are ideal and the lambs show fewer signs of pain/stress. All of them, regardless of when they are banded, recover quickly, usually within 30 minutes.

3) Flystrike

This can be a problem in any breed. Yes, more likely in wool breeds. Of course, there are always exceptions. We lost a lamb to flystrike this summer. She was big and beautiful, no manure stuck anywhere. We had over a week straight of rain and for whatever reason, the flies picked her. She was fine (running along with the other lambs to get her grain) and a couple hours later, dead. No reason prior to that to think anything was wrong.

4) Seems like wool sheep have more issues with parasites.

Maybe. I think that people get caught up in the "parasite resistant breeds" and forget that a lot depends on management. We don't do fecals (one day I will get my act together and learn how to do them myself), but we practice rotational grazing. We have very few parasite problems. We used to have a lot more, losing 1 or 2 lambs a year and having a couple more that lived, but took a long time to get back into good condition. We changed things in our management practices and every year has been better. Someday we will have it perfected.

5) They would need more grain

Not necessarily. There are breeds that handle grass-fed/minimal grain better than others. The hair sheep have been developed to do well on minimal extra input, but there are wool breeds that would do well on good pasture/browse too. I wouldn't get a big meat breed like a Hampshire or Suffolk (unless you can find an old style breeder), but something like a Southdown would probably do well as well as a number of wool/dual-purpose breeds.

6) Their brain would randomly drop out of their head

Again, you had a bad experience with bad sheep. Not all sheep are like that. Most sheep can be won over with treats and scratches. Jacobs are a completely different beast from most other breeds.

What do y'all think about keeping them on milk longer? I know some goats breeders that keep their kids on milk for 10 months because they don't have use for the milk but need to keep the does in milk for DHIR, LA & showing. The kids grow very fast and put on a lot of weight (dairy goats). I think it could cut down on grain (if I had to feed any) and still get them nice and fat!

If you have the milk and don't mind bottle feeding, go for it! Most people use the 30 days/30lbs rule purely because they are buying expensive milk replacer. I'd use a milk bar bucket and let them drink as much as they want. Or train them to drink out of a pail.