ram handling and body-language Qs

bonbean01

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We really blew it with our first ram lamb...thought it cute when he did the pushing with his head on us...oh so NOT cute when he turned two years old and he became very dangerous...a good looking mature ram with a one hundred percent track record in breeding, but an injured or dead sheppard is not worth it. We sold him cheap to a fellow that needed his ewes bred right away, and we told him that this was a dangerous ram and to please watch him always. I'm guessing after his ewes were bred he took the ram to freezer camp.
Now...we bought a ram lamb this spring and have read up on how to raise him correctly (wish we'd known about this sheep forum long ago...so very helpful!)....and this little fellow is so friendly, but we're doing this right this time around...one thing that is helping (without hurting his feelings I hope) is carrying a water pistol for when he comes too close. Hard to not love him up, but harder to be slammed into a tree down the road (that hurt!) or going for x-rays to check for a broken shin bone (that hurt too)..and then being afraid to go into the sheep pen and enjoy them.

So, I'm thinking the water pistol is a good way to go, since he's keeping his distance from us now.

Hope this helps someone:)
 

BeccaJoVon

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Hi. I'm new to sheep and this forum.

Are wethers dangerous at all? I can't imagine there would be such a difference in dispositions. We have had a few goats in the past, and the buck never seemed to be threatening at all. He was a little more aggressive than the weather, but reading posts here, it sounds as though there is a big difference in sheep and goats.

Becky ~
 

aggieterpkatie

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If a ram lamb is castrated at a young age, they grow up to be very nice pet wethers. I've personally never met an aggressive wether. :)
 

BeccaJoVon

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aggieterpkatie said:
If a ram lamb is castrated at a young age, they grow up to be very nice pet wethers. I've personally never met an aggressive wether. :)
Thanks!
 

thestewarts

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I just read through all this. We brought our new sheep home yesterday (3 ewes 6yr old, 3yr old and 3 week old. And 1 ram yearling) None of them were handled often so we are starting fresh and earning trust. They are all either uninterested in us or are gentle when we do get to handle them. The ram is well mannered so far and I hope to keep him that way. So no head petting... what other big no-no's are there that we are missing?
 

CritterZone

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We raise Jacob Sheep so everything has horns - most of them have four. A horn is not an ear - they don't have pain receptors in their horns so grabbing them by the horns isn't going to cause them pain. With the ewes we almost never handle them by the horns, but occasionally, it is the best option. The ram - well, the best way to control him is by his horns. Once you have his head, you usually have his attention. And I would much rather have hold of his horns so that he can't swing them at me. He is not a pet, so we really don't spend any time petting him or loving on him. He is respectful - we give him his space and he has not shown any aggressive tendencies. He doesn't like to butt stuff with his head, so we keep wood rounds and plastic barrels in the pasture for him to beat up. It seems to keep him peaceful.


This is a yearling Ram. His sires top horns are nearly 3 feet tall, so his could still get a lot bigger.
 

SheepGirl

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thestewarts said:
I just read through all this. We brought our new sheep home yesterday (3 ewes 6yr old, 3yr old and 3 week old. And 1 ram yearling) None of them were handled often so we are starting fresh and earning trust. They are all either uninterested in us or are gentle when we do get to handle them. The ram is well mannered so far and I hope to keep him that way. So no head petting... what other big no-no's are there that we are missing?
Raising a ram lamb:
* Do not let him climb on you, nibble at your shirt, or bite at your fingers.
* Do not pet him on the top of his head. You can however, scratch his brisket and his back. 90% of sheep love their brisket scratched and will start licking you.
* Do not play any headbutting 'games' with him (ie pushing your hand against the top of his head)--he will think you are still up for that 'game' when he is an adult.
* Get him used to his feet being touched.
* Do not try to 'dominate' your ram lamb, ie throw him to the ground and hold him there for a couple seconds. He may try to challenge your dominance in the future as he matures and hits puberty. This may be safe to do to a mature ram, however you must remind him of it the start of every breeding season.

Dealing with mature rams:
* Do not let him climb on you.
* Do not pet the top of his head.
* Do not let him rub his head on you...he may see you as an itch reliever (much like a tree or a fence post) and he may hurt you.
* If/when you pet him, do not come from above his head--he will think this is an attack and move his head defensively and he will probably back up a little bit, but then walk up to you. If you keep doing it he will eventually ram into you. Approach him with your hand at his eye level or below.
* Try to avoid hand feeding. Like a bucket, if a ram sees the bucket/your hand (whatever he eats out of), he will run at you, try to get to the feed as best as he can (knocking at the bucket with the top of his head or nudging at your hand)....when he realizes your hand doesn't have any feed, he will probably walk forward which may make your hand rub the top of his head if you aren't careful. And since he's already mad that you don't have any feed he may think of the head touching as a challenge and try to attack you.

AND always, always keep an eye on your ram when you are in the same pen or field as him. And NEVER let someone your ram doesn't know in the same enclosure with him especially if they are smaller than the ram or have no experience handling rams. Personally with my ram, I feel safe with him on the other side of the field, but I feel very uncomfortable when he is following me. I have resorted to just throwing his hay over the fence instead of going in and putting it in his hay feeder because he is starting to get an attitude. Also when I go in there with him (or let other people in there with me), I always make sure to put a halter on him to have at least some control over his head movement. He has hit me from the side at a stand still position though and did leave a bruise on my thigh.

Just because rams are smaller than boars or bulls does not make them any less dangerous :old They are still a 200+ lb hard headed force coming at you at a couple miles an hour that can knock you off your feet and leave you completely vulnerable and helpless. They do not think of the consequences of attacking their shepherd ahead of time unless you've taught them with a water gun, cattle prod, BB gun, smack across the nose, etc. Even still it doesn't work all of the time.
 

bcnewe2

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What a beautiful Jacob ram!

I don't handle my ram if i can help it. I do use trained stock dogs to move my sheep anywhere so I guess I have a big advantage.

But when keeping a ram separate from his ladies I always try to give him a friend, like a young wether to keep him company.

My rams tend to only get nasty when their ladies are ready and they can't get to them. Other wise they seem to be content to eat and laze around.

If I didn't have a dog and needed to move my ram to a close by paddock, I'd get him used to a bucket that I feed grain out of. Let him see me dump some grain in a feeder where I wanted him to go and then let him go.

I've also used a stock stick that if waved in the corner of his eye (doesn't have to be really close to the eye just catch his sight out of the corner) will make him move off, usually. But a ram intent on getting to his lady friends would not be one I want to deal with unless I have one of the dogs.

I have had rams come at me in a butting way. I usually carry a thin stock stick with me. With no dog, I will wamp the ram on the side of the face (not lightly but not in a manner that can do damage either) and they get the message. If you hit them on the top of the head or on the nose, they take it as a challenge and will come back at you if they are in the mood!

Looking at all the pictures of beautiful Jacob sheep makes me want to get some.
What are the benefits of Jacob sheep? Besides their beautiful horns. I've never had horned sheep, can you harvest the horns with the sheep alive or is it something you get after the sheep dies?
 

WhiteMountainsRanch

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patandchickens said:
I would think sheep would be to some extent to, but I do not speak sheep. Anyone want to give me some basic tips here, aside from "if you approach too close they run away" which I have already figured out thanks :p?

Pat


:yuckyuck Bwaaahhaaahhaaa!!! :lol: I just got sheep, have had them for three days now. This is the FIRST thing I learned!!! :gig
 

boothcreek

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Around here you seem to hear a lot about evil Rams, I have 6 right now, all horned and I have not had a mean one yet(but then again none of mine are bottle raised and 75% of the mean ones I met were). I dont pay attention to them unless they approach me, and that is usually just to check if I have treats(so let them sniff my hands or check the bucket -if I have one-) and then they mosey off and treat me like I am part of the landscape.
Love the fact that I dont have to worry about turning my back on them, they couldn't give a damn. Dinked around with their electric fence for a few hours last weekend and except for the first curious look to see what I am doing, they all lazed around ignoring me.
Of course I know these boys really well, and I have met my share of mean(polled) Rams and I see how they react to eachother when one ticked off another, there is a tension and a focus to their body language that means TROUBLE. You can see the wheels turning. None of mine have shown any such body-language towards me yet, and some of these rams I had for 4-5 yrs now.

Yes horned rams dislike their horns touched, mainly because if something is touching the horns there is a chance to get caught and stuck on something so instinct tells them to avoid it at all costs unless its for fighting with another ram. I use that to train my boys to keep their distance when following me at lock-up, if they follow too close and try to check if they can reach the grain-bucket I just tap them on the horn with my hand which gets them to move out of reach real quick. In their mind there is some sort of barrier surrounding me that will possibly catch on their horns if they come to close into my space.

They still come up to take treats out of my hands, even tho I use their horns as handles when I catch them. As long as I dont make the tell-tale reach for their head-gear they are not at all head-shy.

I socialize with my boys a lot, it mainly being me grabbing a bucket and sitting in their pen reading and letting them check me out and then go do their business with me sitting there. Oddly enough they do seem to draw some sort of comfort from my presents since they will usually bed down around me. Same when they are free ranging, if I am out and about they will gravitate towards hanging out around me without being obvious about it. My Ewe group does that too so I think they just feel safer near a person...
I dont encourage touching with my sheep, as long as I can come within close proximity of them without them being nervous I am happy. My mouflons for example will take grain from me or eat less then 2 feet from where I'm sitting, with such wild sheep that is fantastic. I find petting blurrs the boundaries to your personal space which can be hard to grasp for sheep etc.
 

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