Rescue LGD persnickety...

[Baymule]

You mentioned a 5 foot tall fence. What about putting up a 5' fence with a hot wire set at 4 feet with warning signs for the campers? People would have to reach over and in the fence to get hit by the hot wire. Yeah, I know, people are stupid, but tell them when they get there and put up warning signs.

 

[TMChickensLGD]

@Baymule

One thing we have learned is that no one is happy with what we do. It is such a catch 22..if we protect the guests dogs they feel we are abusing the pup by keeping him in a pen and then if we let him loose we putting heir dog at risk. Sigh. We are still thinking about the fence.

 

[Baymule]

What about posting a print out about LGD's and your dog in your office for guests to see when they sign in/out? People are passionate about their pets and think their way is the only way, some are open to being educated about working dogs.

 

[Bruce]

What about posting a print out about LGD's and your dog in your office for guests to see when they sign in/out?

Better to hand them a copy. More likely to read something they take with them.

We hope a 4 ft fence 2x4 in works. We want him, the chickens and the guests pets to be safe AND happy.

Consider the size of the dog as an adult when on his hind legs. A 4' fence without hot wire will not keep the dog in. A 5' might not either but you have a better chance.

 

[BrendaMNgri]

Great post Brenda

Thank you @Mike CHS . I've been refraining from saying much more in this thread for fear of stepping on toes as I see it becoming
more and more complex. But here goes. For the OP:

1. Negative forecasting - guarantee that mindset will set you up to fail every time. I hear this with the constant "people are going to do this that blah blah."
How do YOU know what they will or won't do? Stop predicting what kids will do/won't do with the hot wire. Ditto for parents. Get hot wire. Get taller fence
as others have told you to do. 4ft will do nothing in the end.
2. Guests coming and going from property with their dogs - ugh. I could write a book on that one (in fact it will be brought up in the book I'm doing now.)
Defeats the entire purpose of having an LGD and sends major mixed signals to your dog...bad ones. In fact, makes me wonder why you got an LGD!
3. Others WISELY have pointed this out too - there is a high probability your "LGD" is a mix. Is there a reason you went this route instead of contacting a reputable breeder
of LGDs with proven bloodlines and low-risk pups? Why did you feel you had to adopt this pup? JUST ASKING!
4. Guests are guests, period. They don't call the shots on your place, you do.

OK - that's it for my input! I'm out of here and back to finishing my book. (I recommend you read it when it comes out. I'll post in here when it is available. Soon!)

 

[AllenK]

All of our LGD's are naturals. We are fortunate to possess such wonderful animals. Our oldest is a 55 pound pitt/rottweiler mix who can make the ground thunder when running off a bobcat at night(Wise County Texas). I have been blessed to have such great animals. Even the lab takes perimeter defense seriously.

 

[Ridgetop]

Please don't think I am judging or criticizing you in any way. I just see some probable problems here. We all want to help you be successful which is why we are all telling you that you have to fence to keep any LGD in. Wow, reading this back it really seems very negative, but believe me I do not mean it that way.

First, I have not found any of our LGDs to be food motivated. In fact, they will receive the treat after sniffing it for a long time, then often drop it on the ground as they turn away. At first this gave me serious self esteem issues! They are affection motivated, but do not train like any other dog. Not only do they train differently, but even when trained, only obey if they decide to. If there is a predator they will not pay attention because they know their job is to drive it off. If an animal is injured they will not leave it, even for their dinner. They will come and get you if they feel it is safe to leave the injured or lambing animal. Latestarter is correct when he says that LGDs that are territorial protectors will widen their territory until they reach what they recognize as the maximum they can protect. Our Pyrs protected 120 acres which we did not even own!

Looking at the aerial picture of your property, is there any way you can extend the fencing up to your house so you can access the fenced area from a side door. That way you can let the dog have some personal family time inside with you. Maybe you can also extend the posts on the 4 strand wire fencing you already have and add taller no climb wire. Our dogs come in in the evening after the sheep are locked up ad they enjoy several hours with family. I assume (?) that you use the front of your house for the check in of cabin guests, so you can't fence it off completely.

With regard to the customers, I know it is business speak to say guests, but these are customers and I assume that this business income is necessary. I am sure you have rules for your paying guests, just add those warnings into the rules. Definitely hand out the LGD info and also a printed warning to your paying guests that if their dogs are running loose and enter a rancher's field they could be shot if they chase livestock. If they have to sign when they come in that they have received a copy of the rules and agree to abide by them you will have some protection in case of a problem. Also, put up laminated or weatherproof signs on the LGD fencing explaining what LGD dogs are and what they are used for. A little education never hurts. Right now he is a cute puppy, think about 2 years into the future when he is 100 lbs or more. His size alone will be threatening. If one of the guests has a dog that decides to go after the Pyr, he will defend himself. I had my 80 lb. Weimaraner on a leash at a dog show years ago. Another dog, up to then very quiet, lunged at him. It was all I could do to hold my dog as he tried to protect me. To protect yourself, you need to keep your gentle giant safely fenced.

This is a business, these are paying guests, not friends. What policies and insurance do you have in place in case one of the guest's dogs bites some one or takes out any of your livestock? Without fenced enclosures at each cabin are the guests letting their dogs out to do their business at night off leash? That dog might decide to head off after the smell of your goats or chickens, or worse the neighboring rancher's animals.

I hate to be a downer, but the problem I see is that you expect the guests to be able to ramble freely with their dogs off leash (it sounds like) throughout your property and through the surrounding woods, etc. Are you surrounded by private property or public land? There are leash laws for some state and federal parks. If you are surrounded by private land, are your perimeters posted so the guests will know when they are leaving your property? In addition, if your dog runs loose on someone's land he could get shot. If he decides to take out someone's animals, you could have major expense and legal problems.

Do you have experience living in ranch or farm territory? Wanting your LGD to run free may sound like a great idea but it can cause a lot of problems for you. Pyrs are usually sweet and friendly to people when socialized. That is why we chose them in the beginning when we had 4-Hers and children's friends coming over all the time. But they can be vicious in driving off predators. This will include any dog belonging to a guest that tries to get poultry or other animals under the protection of your LGD. In addition, adopting a cross breed means you have no idea of what the dog's temperament or guarding style is. if you bought from a breeder you would have been able to find out.

We have 5' oil pipe fencing with no climb wire around our property BUT there is a steep drop to the back of the property and a steep drop from the front of the property. We are only accessible by cars and walkers for about 100 feet and there we have 6' fencing. The slope of our property means that when we have our torrential tropical rains (yes we do have them in So Cal) it means that the steep surfaces slough off and end up against the fence on the downside of the property. in a couple places the fences are now lower than 4'. We have added taller poles to the existing poles and are in the process of raising the wire fencing to 7'. We live in a very litigious society, and we don't want any trouble from neighbors. We loved our Pyrs, but couldn't have them wandering the outside of the property like they did 30 years agur Anatolians were chosen this time because the stay with the flock. When we have guests other than family, we kennel the dogs and put the sheep up in the fold.

I don't think there is any dog you can buy that will fulfill your hopes of having a dog that will stay within your boundaries without a fence, mingle with your guests and their dogs, and still protect your animals and property. You are making progress with the training, so keep up the good work and good luck.

 

[goats4us]

@goats4us



Bet that was great moment! Love when they meet & exceed our expectations. Although it has actually lured me into a false sense of security several times.

It was a joy and relief. Before that I was wondering if any of the training was working at all, or how we were going to do this since she didn't respond to treats. But she's doing great; so responsive to praise and attention.

 

[AllenK]

To me dogs just train themselves if you care just a bit about them. It is really hard to believe that I have a Chocolate Lab that thinks she is is German Shepherd. Please do not trespass on my property, as this dog will take action. She trained herself I never did, I just gave her love.

 

[Beekissed]

Been spot reading about your pup and I have different experiences with LGDs mixed with Lab and also LGD mixed with LGD...VASTLY different experiences than are detailed here.

Yours is just a pup, so this should be easier than getting an adult dog already trained/set in his ways and untrained. If he's not food motivated, you are likely feeding too much...I've not had a dog of any breed yet that wasn't food motivated and that's a natural thing. Especially Labs...haven't met one yet that wasn't food motivated.

My current LGD~Anatolian/Maremma/GP mix is VERY food motivated.

I wouldn't put him in a harness...harnesses are for pulling and gives him much more power, as it lets him pull with his chest instead of his neck. Any time you see any animal pulling something, they are in a harness and that's the reason why....it helps them pull stronger.

Teaching leash training is as easy as passing the leash through its own handle and placing that loop on the dog, making sure it's positioned up high behind the ears. When they pull back, this tightens, when they move forward it loosens. First lesson? Move forward when there is a tug on the leash...this is his first lesson of all. Don't drag, just a steady pressure until he takes a step forward...small piece of bacon if he does. He'll get the idea.

Here's a few pics of Ben as a pup leash walking with two individuals who had never walked a dog in their life, my very old mother and my very young granddaughter. LGDs CAN learn to walk on a leash and do so very nicely, just have to have the right kind of teacher is all.

Here's a thread documenting how I trained Ben up for guarding chickens, including leash training, obedience training, etc. Even keeping him on an electric containment system. https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/the-education-of-ben.31911/

The worst thing you can do is penning him next to the chickens where he can get by with all manner of bad behavior towards them~barking, lunging, pacing~while unsupervised and without anyone to correct the behaviors, so I wouldn't do that move...I see that a lot on BYC and such and it takes them YEARS to train a dog on chickens after that, if they ever really do succeed at all. Especially as a pup...his first contact with the chickens needs to be very supervised and with an eye towards correcting any overt attention towards them, no matter the provocation.

I wish you well with your new pup...it sounds like you are in it for the long haul, so don't give up, be strong, and enjoy the breed! They are really cool dogs.