Researching LGD's

[AK Michelle]

I live in an out of the way corner of a small farm community in Palmer, Alaska. I raise chickens, and now turkeys too, and have passively thought about some sort of guardian for them. We have recently moved onto 5 acres, just 1/2 mile from our previous residence, but suddenly we have more predators.


So now we are actively researching guardians, before it's too late.

The previous owners bred and raised boxers, so the proeprty is fenced in such a way as to contain active, athletic, dogs. We had hoped it would be enough of a barrier to protect our flock. However, just the other day, a red fox let me know that he's in the neighborhood and he knows the birds are there. He hasn't killed anything yet, it's summer in Alaska, there's more than enough to eat without having to actually expend energy hunting. But I'm sure he'll be back, later, when food is a bit more scarce.

We also have hawks, owls and eagles, which so far have not been a big problem, but the potential is there.

And then there's the neighbor dogs. Most roam free, my current concern is an Akita mix, a big dog, not really what I would call aggressive, but smart, too smart. He was in the driveway last night when Tom got home. Tom didn't see him till he turned to open his car door and was greeted by a big nose against his car window. Tom sent the dog out of the yard, and he went a little ways but then turned back on the other side of the house and started pawing at the fence, looking at the ground and the edges, like he was casing the joint, looking for a way in. Again, not aggressive, no barking or snapping, but systematically watching the turkeys, picking at the fence, looking for a weak spot (of which there are many, please don't tell him).

I will go find his owner and explain that he needs to be kept home, even in Alaska - it's the law, but I don't expect to be taken very seriously.

Which is what leads me here, in search of a dog that will encourage other dogs to just keep on wandering.

As I said before, my yard was fenced (with chain-link) to contain boxers, and it is also divided into different areas. I have a lab and a lab-mix, that live in the house, have their own private potty-yard and, when they are supervised, have access to a big play yard where we throw bals and frisbees and basically run them into the ground so they will not be to rambunctious in the house

I also have kids, teenagers mostly, who do not have a fenced yard, but somethimes I think it might be a good idea. BUt that's another discussion for another day

My birds have a 3 acre pasture in which they free range. We are building a barn that will have pop doors so they can go in and out as they please. I have some regular egg layers, who are mostely home-bodies (ie. they stay rather close to the coop) and then I have some Icelandic chickens, they are a landrace that was near extinction and are now making a comback. The Icelandics are excellent foragers, they disperse fearlessly in small groups, searching for bugs and tastey weed. They are pretty predator savvy and fly rather well. My turkeys are blue slates, and while they are not the biggest turkeys, they fly pretty well too. My hope was that the flight skills would allow them to fly into the trees to avoid the ground predators.

What I'm looking for is a dog that will live in the barn, accept the family, but protect the flock from predators or at the very least, alert us to dangers that might be lurking. I've had bird dogs, horses, goats, cows and poultry but Guardian Dogs is a whole new arena for me.

Is an LGD going to help solve my problems?

What do I need to consider?

How do I pick one that will protect poultry?

Thanks!

 

[lgdnevada]

Hi Michelle and welcome to the forum!
Let me preface by saying I'm not here to sell my dogs or promote one particular breed.....I honestly don't know what
breed I"d recommend to you. Several come to mind.

You have a tall order - lots of poultry, dogs paying you unwanted visits...the usual suspects (predators, lol).....

You say you want your dog to stay in the barn. But I think what you mean is that will be his 'home base' - otherwise
if he was shut in it he couldn't keep that Akita away, yes?

From what you describe, you'd need to find a breed that is not prone to want to take off and wander. I don't think you
need a particularly aggressive breed. I think you need a pup/pups that come from stock that has been guarding poultry.
I must admit, with 17 dogs, the poultry guarding has been the one obstacle I have not jumped over.....I did free range my chickens,
but with raising pups and all, it was just too much - they always ended up wanting to play or chase the hens. Because my emphasis is raising giant breed
LGD's to combat large predators (lion, wolves, bear), I had to make a choice, and finally the chickens got penned up in a large area where
my LGD's can still protect them but not mingle. Best of both worlds.

You will need to spend time with your pup teaching it boundaries. You'll need to correct it if it begins to harass your poultry. If it is out of good
guarding stock the instinct to guard will be there. You'll just enhance it with praise when it does what you need it to do.

I would recommend you buy a pup that's been handled and socialized so you can catch him and handle him. And beginning shots for parvo/distemper
and at least a couple of dewormings. You want a healthy pup that can meet its full potential.

There are so many breeds. Are there any breeds for sale in Alaska? Go visit the breeder, look at the parents, ask a lot of questions.

I do also believe an LGD can protect not just the flock and stock but family and farm/ranch as well.

Kind of vague reply I know but just tossing out some general guidelines.

 

[AK Michelle]

Hi Michelle and welcome to the forum!
Let me preface by saying I'm not here to sell my dogs or promote one particular breed.....I honestly don't know what
breed I"d recommend to you. Several come to mind.

You have a tall order - lots of poultry, dogs paying you unwanted visits...the usual suspects (predators, lol).....

You say you want your dog to stay in the barn. But I think what you mean is that will be his 'home base' - otherwise
if he was shut in it he couldn't keep that Akita away, yes?

From what you describe, you'd need to find a breed that is not prone to want to take off and wander. I don't think you
need a particularly aggressive breed. I think you need a pup/pups that come from stock that has been guarding poultry.
I must admit, with 17 dogs, the poultry guarding has been the one obstacle I have not jumped over.....I did free range my chickens,
but with raising pups and all, it was just too much - they always ended up wanting to play or chase the hens. Because my emphasis is raising giant breed
LGD's to combat large predators (lion, wolves, bear), I had to make a choice, and finally the chickens got penned up in a large area where
my LGD's can still protect them but not mingle. Best of both worlds.

You will need to spend time with your pup teaching it boundaries. You'll need to correct it if it begins to harass your poultry. If it is out of good
guarding stock the instinct to guard will be there. You'll just enhance it with praise when it does what you need it to do.

I would recommend you buy a pup that's been handled and socialized so you can catch him and handle him. And beginning shots for parvo/distemper
and at least a couple of dewormings. You want a healthy pup that can meet its full potential.

There are so many breeds. Are there any breeds for sale in Alaska? Go visit the breeder, look at the parents, ask a lot of questions.

I do also believe an LGD can protect not just the flock and stock but family and farm/ranch as well.

Kind of vague reply I know but just tossing out some general guidelines.

Thank you for the reply, it was kind of a vague request, one that will get clearer as I learn more.

And Yes, you are correct, I worded that poorly. I would never make a dog stay inside the barn all the time rather, I would like the dog to live with the flock not in the house

I feel like I would need a large dog because they would be expected to stand up to moose, large dogs and maybe a bear (although we've only had bear in the yard one time) I would think, for the most part, any size dog would deter a fox or bird of prey.

There are many LGD's in Alaska so I assume there must be breeders. So far no one seems to be answering any of my local inquiries. But, I've only been inquiring for almost 24 hours so hopefully someone will pipe up soon. The guardian dogs I know personally have all come in from out of state.

All the rest, I know, as I've had dogs all my life and other livestock as well. I've dealt with breeders and health records and the like, but it's always good to be reminded to cover those issues as well.

Thank you again for all the info.

Michelle

 

[lgdnevada]

I'm curious in Alaska due to the cold, do they run mostly long or med. long haired LGD's up there?

 

[AK Michelle]

I'm curious in Alaska due to the cold, do they run mostly long or med. long haired LGD's up there?

Yes. Most of what I have seen is Pyr's, but I know of a few people with Maremma's, and the lady up the mountain with a higher concentration of bears uses Kuvasz with her Alpacas. We only had bear in the yard once, we live in a Y between where 2 rivers meet, the bears were heading from one to the other. Mom with cubs went thru first, the big boar came after. I'm sure mom's only concern had been saving her cubs from the boar, who would kill them. They went right along the goat pen, didn't look right or left, just made a straight line for the river and the fish.

The alpaca lady has an 8 foot fence with an electric wire, nose high, around the outside, and her dog meets the bears at the wire and his barking turns them away. Which is pretty typical. Noise is generally the best deterrent with bears.

 

[lgdnevada]

I notice here in the lower states the Pyr seems to get a lot of bum raps over their long hair or wanderlust. If you find a good strain of working Pyrs here, frankly they can hold their own with most other breeds just fine. There IS a reason why they are the most popular LGD in America, they didn't get that way by being prissies or losers. Grooming an LGD is a good practice and relaxing and good way to bond with your dog, and check them over for foxtails, cuts, etc. People who complain about the long hair I've always wondered why they didn't get a short haired breed then, but even short haired breeds will blow out coat and you should groom them (I think a lot of people just don't). Maremmas need grooming too. Even my short haired breeds blow out and need to be brushed. Like any LGD breed I think its important to look where they come from. There are exceptions to everything. I have some LGDs out of show ring stock that guard better than the one (same breed) I got from a supposed 'working' background; she never would guard the goats, she only wanted to chase and maul them. Don't be afraid to ask for references from breeders, they should be able to give you some, and talk to people and find out how they like the dog/pup they got from the person. Like the bear story....!

 

[AK Michelle]

I notice here in the lower states the Pyr seems to get a lot of bum raps over their long hair or wanderlust. If you find a good strain of working Pyrs here, frankly they can hold their own with most other breeds just fine. There IS a reason why they are the most popular LGD in America, they didn't get that way by being prissies or losers. Grooming an LGD is a good practice and relaxing and good way to bond with your dog, and check them over for foxtails, cuts, etc. People who complain about the long hair I've always wondered why they didn't get a short haired breed then, but even short haired breeds will blow out coat and you should groom them (I think a lot of people just don't). Maremmas need grooming too. Even my short haired breeds blow out and need to be brushed. Like any LGD breed I think its important to look where they come from. There are exceptions to everything. I have some LGDs out of show ring stock that guard better than the one (same breed) I got from a supposed 'working' background; she never would guard the goats, she only wanted to chase and maul them. Don't be afraid to ask for references from breeders, they should be able to give you some, and talk to people and find out how they like the dog/pup they got from the person. Like the bear story....!

We get that a lot up here. People get a husky cause it's cute and fluffy and then they complain because it has hair. I have a lab, labs shed, labs shed morethan most other dogs I've had. She looks like a short haired dog, but once you have to vacuum up after her, you start to wonder how many dogs you really have. No matter the season or how much she gets brushed, she leaves a trail of fur balls that look like little tribbles all over the house.

Rotties do just fine up here, outside, even in the winter, so short haired dogs work. A little known fact - Alaska Huskies are mutts not an actual breed, different mushers have different traits that they like. Most breed in some sort of short haired dog to get less fluffy dogs. The long haired dogs get too hot to run if it's above zero.

Anyway, my search continues.

Maybe you can answer this question for me. I plan to have the interior of the barn divided, poultry area seperate from people area. The chicken pens will have pop doors, and the people area will have a man door. It is where I will store the feed and tools and have my sink, incubator and medical ward/solitary confinement.

I was thinking I could put a dog door in the man door and feed the dog in the people side. But then, if an owl gets in with the birds the dog won't be able to get there. Should I just put pop doors in that are big enough for the dog to get through? But then the dog is trapped inside once the doors are closed for the night. Or a dog door in each side? Of course if I put the dog door in the chicken area then the barn is not secure at night, a fox or owl could come through the dog door. But if the dog is in there then it is secure... Sorry, thinking out loud.

I appreciate your opinion and feedback.

Thanks!

 

[watchdogps]

I would design the coop area so that the dog could nt readily get in, or at least take precautions so the dog can't have access to large amounts of droppings. As for the feeding, I would train the dog to eat at mealtimes and not leave it down, so you can feed on the human side but the dog will only be there a few minutes