Ridgetop - our place and how we muddle along

Senile_Texas_Aggie

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Miss @Ridgetop,

As much fun as name-calling can be, and sometimes deserved, it is not as helpful as other approaches. After all, anyone can indulge in name-calling, whether or not they know how to address the issue. So I am going to ask you to do something somewhat harder. How about I propose a hypothetical scenario to you and get your response? Suppose governor Newsome, the state legislature, and mayor Garcetti heard that you were the smartest person in California and that they would implement whatever policy you recommended. (Please note that my calling you the smartest person in California is NOT a dig at your intelligence, so please don't take offense.) What would you recommend to them? Please answer with specifics, why you think that is the best approach, why you think other approaches are not as good, Having different advice for different parts of the state is perfectly fine. Just be prepared to explain your reasoning. Again, the only thing I ask is that you not do any name-calling.

Senile Texas Aggie
 

Ridgetop

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While I commend STA’s concerns about name calling, I would remind him of the proverb “Sticks and Stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you”. Calling our public officials names comes within the territory of public service.

If I were the smartest person in the world, maybe I would have a cure or vaccine for Covid, cancer and the common cold. I’m not and I don’t but then what is happening in this state is not controlling it either. Here is my opinion for what it is worth.

I would recommend wearing masks and good hygiene, but if you want to take your chances, that is on you. If I want to cut my chances of catching it, I will restrict my public activities and wear a mask. Even the CDC contradicts itself on a regular basis. Medically recommended precautions change practically every week. No medical professionals are in complete agreement. Now they are squabbling over what treatments are effective – there is a reason doctors are said to be practicing medicine.

If I were to recommend anything, I would tell people not to react hysterically. Terror is more dangerous than the disease. I would advise that people use common sense. I would recommend people use masks if they choose, but not make it mandatory. Use of hand sanitizer is good but not 100% effective. The long term effects of this virus are unknown, it will be years before we find out what they are. If people have the ability to work from home, and employers can arrange it, I would suggest that but not require it. Before making blanket statements about the death rate I would look up the statistics on annual death rates for influenza and other diseases we see as a normal winter recurrence.

What I would NOT do is close the entire state down, then reopen it, then close it down, then reopen it, then close it down, changing the rules practically every week. I certainly would not mandate which businesses could or could not stay open. I think that sensible people would not attend crowded venues or functions if they were afraid of contracting the disease. If masks really work, then sensible people will wear them in public places. I don’t think walking through a deserted parking lot to the store before putting on your mask should merit a police citation and fine.

When the mayor and governor close all businesses and churches but allow liquor stores and marijuana dispensaries to remain open as "necessary" businesses, normal people wonder about their hypocritical logic. People should be allowed to mourn their dead and bury them without being threatened with legal fines. When the governor and mayor allow and in fact, publicly approve massive numbers of people to emerge for protests - many of whom are not wearing masks and have come from out of state, we question their political agendas. When they come out and say that "no one contracted Covid from the protests" before the incubation period is over, we know that is a lie and not protecting the health of their constituents. It is simply political. When organized rioting, looting, and arson take place and the mayors and governor ignore the seriousness of these crimes, while restricting law abiding citizens to their homes due to “the Covid threat”, we begin to wonder how we are being protected. When our governing body in this state seeks to remove all means of self-protection from its citizens and then announces they plan to cut the police force significantly, people wonder about the willingness of their local governments to protect them.

Outlawing family gatherings (all members of which have been in quarantine for months) on 4th of July weekend was unnecessary. Closing the beaches for the 4th of July weekend due to the “threat of Covid”, then reopening the beaches the following weekend due to ”expected high temperatures of 100 degrees” (which we reached on 4th July as well) is ridiculous!

This sort of shilly-shallying is what has so angered the citizens of this state. Their constituents begin to wonder whether they are actually considering the welfare of their citizens, or simply their political agenda. This comes on top of a lot of other actions by both Newsom and Garcetti that has resulted in recall petitions for both Newson and Garcetti. Due to the mandated quarantine, they cannot be circulated. Pretty convenient to be able to keep people sequestered and frightened to avoid signatures on a recall petition.

The schools are discussing having half the children go to school on Monday/Wednesday and the other half on Tuesday/Thursday. The teachers must attend the entire week I order to tutor students o Friday that need the hep 9in other words all of them after only 2 days a week class time). They will have to produce the same results as they do now. Most working parents rely on their children being in school while they are working. What will they do with the children on the days they are not in school? Daycare? What about the risk of Covid there? My daughter is a schoolteacher. While her children are at home 3 days a week who will care for them? We normally care for them after school and on “pupil free” days. She says she can’t bring them to us after they have been exposed to other children. How can she go back to work? Her husband can work from home a couple days a week, but he can’t do his complicated computer work and watch 3 young children and oversee their at-home school work at the same time.

I am the president of the local senior center Bridge club. I discussed the situation in February with my Board and we voted to suspend play on the 1st of March. The senior center closed a week later. We have now decided to keep the suspension until January 1, 2021. Then we will revisit the decision. Many of our members are in frail health. Others don’t want to chance the disease and won’t come anyway. We can’t play cards at a “social” distance of 6’, in gloves, or wearing masks for 5 hours. Many of our members are deaf or hard of hearing, the muffled bidding from behind a mask would frustrate play. Not being able to serve snacks is a minor problem. This was a sensible precaution. Some of our members are getting together at private homes to play Bridge. This is their individual choice. Still others are playing on line.

We wear masks when going out in public. We are staying at home. We are taking the necessary precautions. Not because the governor or mayor have ordered us to do so, but because it’s the sensible thing to do. We are lucky, we are retired and don’t have to go out. What about those who must work for a living?

College students are now holding “Covid Parties” Everyone puts a sum of money into the pot. The first person to contract Covid wins! These students are apparently too stupid for college after all. Maybe they need to be removed from the gene pool.

Sooner or later the country has to open back up and we human have to take our chances just as humans have done from the beginning of time with any new disease or infection. Americans have always valued individual freedom and choice
 

farmerjan

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While I commend STA’s concerns about name calling, I would remind him of the proverb “Sticks and Stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you”. Calling our public officials names comes within the territory of public service.

If I were the smartest person in the world, maybe I would have a cure or vaccine for Covid, cancer and the common cold. I’m not and I don’t but then what is happening in this state is not controlling it either. Here is my opinion for what it is worth.

I would recommend wearing masks and good hygiene, but if you want to take your chances, that is on you. If I want to cut my chances of catching it, I will restrict my public activities and wear a mask. Even the CDC contradicts itself on a regular basis. Medically recommended precautions change practically every week. No medical professionals are in complete agreement. Now they are squabbling over what treatments are effective – there is a reason doctors are said to be practicing medicine.

If I were to recommend anything, I would tell people not to react hysterically. Terror is more dangerous than the disease. I would advise that people use common sense. I would recommend people use masks if they choose, but not make it mandatory. Use of hand sanitizer is good but not 100% effective. The long term effects of this virus are unknown, it will be years before we find out what they are. If people have the ability to work from home, and employers can arrange it, I would suggest that but not require it. Before making blanket statements about the death rate I would look up the statistics on annual death rates for influenza and other diseases we see as a normal winter recurrence.

What I would NOT do is close the entire state down, then reopen it, then close it down, then reopen it, then close it down, changing the rules practically every week. I certainly would not mandate which businesses could or could not stay open. I think that sensible people would not attend crowded venues or functions if they were afraid of contracting the disease. If masks really work, then sensible people will wear them in public places. I don’t think walking through a deserted parking lot to the store before putting on your mask should merit a police citation and fine.

When the mayor and governor close all businesses and churches but allow liquor stores and marijuana dispensaries to remain open as "necessary" businesses, normal people wonder about their hypocritical logic. People should be allowed to mourn their dead and bury them without being threatened with legal fines. When the governor and mayor allow and in fact, publicly approve massive numbers of people to emerge for protests - many of whom are not wearing masks and have come from out of state, we question their political agendas. When they come out and say that "no one contracted Covid from the protests" before the incubation period is over, we know that is a lie and not protecting the health of their constituents. It is simply political. When organized rioting, looting, and arson take place and the mayors and governor ignore the seriousness of these crimes, while restricting law abiding citizens to their homes due to “the Covid threat”, we begin to wonder how we are being protected. When our governing body in this state seeks to remove all means of self-protection from its citizens and then announces they plan to cut the police force significantly, people wonder about the willingness of their local governments to protect them.

Outlawing family gatherings (all members of which have been in quarantine for months) on 4th of July weekend was unnecessary. Closing the beaches for the 4th of July weekend due to the “threat of Covid”, then reopening the beaches the following weekend due to ”expected high temperatures of 100 degrees” (which we reached on 4th July as well) is ridiculous!

This sort of shilly-shallying is what has so angered the citizens of this state. Their constituents begin to wonder whether they are actually considering the welfare of their citizens, or simply their political agenda. This comes on top of a lot of other actions by both Newsom and Garcetti that has resulted in recall petitions for both Newson and Garcetti. Due to the mandated quarantine, they cannot be circulated. Pretty convenient to be able to keep people sequestered and frightened to avoid signatures on a recall petition.

The schools are discussing having half the children go to school on Monday/Wednesday and the other half on Tuesday/Thursday. The teachers must attend the entire week I order to tutor students o Friday that need the hep 9in other words all of them after only 2 days a week class time). They will have to produce the same results as they do now. Most working parents rely on their children being in school while they are working. What will they do with the children on the days they are not in school? Daycare? What about the risk of Covid there? My daughter is a schoolteacher. While her children are at home 3 days a week who will care for them? We normally care for them after school and on “pupil free” days. She says she can’t bring them to us after they have been exposed to other children. How can she go back to work? Her husband can work from home a couple days a week, but he can’t do his complicated computer work and watch 3 young children and oversee their at-home school work at the same time.

I am the president of the local senior center Bridge club. I discussed the situation in February with my Board and we voted to suspend play on the 1st of March. The senior center closed a week later. We have now decided to keep the suspension until January 1, 2021. Then we will revisit the decision. Many of our members are in frail health. Others don’t want to chance the disease and won’t come anyway. We can’t play cards at a “social” distance of 6’, in gloves, or wearing masks for 5 hours. Many of our members are deaf or hard of hearing, the muffled bidding from behind a mask would frustrate play. Not being able to serve snacks is a minor problem. This was a sensible precaution. Some of our members are getting together at private homes to play Bridge. This is their individual choice. Still others are playing on line.

We wear masks when going out in public. We are staying at home. We are taking the necessary precautions. Not because the governor or mayor have ordered us to do so, but because it’s the sensible thing to do. We are lucky, we are retired and don’t have to go out. What about those who must work for a living?

College students are now holding “Covid Parties” Everyone puts a sum of money into the pot. The first person to contract Covid wins! These students are apparently too stupid for college after all. Maybe they need to be removed from the gene pool.

Sooner or later the country has to open back up and we human have to take our chances just as humans have done from the beginning of time with any new disease or infection. Americans have always valued individual freedom and choice
AMEN.
 

farmerjan

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Our Va gov is doing the same back and forth BS. I for one also believe that if you are in the susceptible groups, then you need to take precautions.
I think that for the most part that it has been overhyped, overdone. The numbers aren't adding up and the "new positive cases that are reported everyday are NOT ALL NEW. I had to go to the bank today to get a paper notarized. The woman manager, did not wear a mask, did not require a mask and although I did not get close to another customer, whom I know, (and for public information is a black man who also was not wearing a mask). After he left, I sat down in the same chair, leaned on the same desk, handed over the papers to the same lady who did not go running for sanitizer, and signed the papers so she could notarize them. She then told me that there was a woman she knows who tested positive 6 weeks ago. She has since had 4 more tests.... all are STILL positive..... and each has been reported as a positive test so is a "NEW POSITIVE TEST"..... even though it is a retest again and again. She said this person has never had a symptom yet.
Don't tell me this is a one in a million oddity..... it is happening alot more often than they would ever let you know.

I am with @Ridgetop ..... shutting down the country has accomplished little or nothing except to maybe "flatten the curve" but if we don't get some natural immunity we will never "get over this". The curve....which was to decrease the number of severe cases INUNDATING the emergency rooms; has long since done that. The ones showing "positive results" now, are mostly all younger and healthier and often showing few if any symptoms. If they don't get so sick and die, then all that they have been exposed to will also develop a resistance. The number of deaths is sad, but the PERCENTAGE of deaths is still dropping.

People with bad colds..... a corona virus ...... should not visit those who are at risk. People with a flu bug should not visit those who are risk. I mean , use your head for more than a hat rack.
COMMON SENSE as @Ridgetop said. The college kids are being stupid and dumb.... 99% will get it and nothing happens to them..... but they are also courting it which is not using any common sense. If you are sick stay the he// home. no more of this working through it. But if you are feeling well, and functioning well, and are not in a critical age group or compromised situation, then get back to life.

I wear a mask only to PT and to the dr appts. as they require them.

I think that this is simply being made into a bigger deal, than it should have been; and is politically motivated to continue, than it warrants. But I am only a dumb farmer..... Y'all better hope that enough of us dumb farmers have some immunity in our systems.... some maybe from exposure to the vaccines that we use on our cattle, and the exposure we have to soooo many germs..... or all of you that seem to think that one day life will get back to normal..... there will be something "normal" to go back to. And that in the meantime you have food to eat. Believe me, we are to the point that us, that have, as far as food and such goes, will be taking care more of ourselves with the other craziness going on. Like the gov'ts that aren't "following their own rules and protocols" for these protests that are so innocuous and peaceful; many that are somewhat self sufficient will become more so and the more lawless this all becomes, the less likely we will be to share with anyone we are not friends with or know well. There will be more backlashes as it gets more out of hand if there is not some COMMON SENSE applied and soon. Not just the virus, which I know is the focus of this topic. The virus is just one part of a bigger whole that is showing the disaster this country is headed for.
 

farmerjan

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Also, there is an article in USATODAY about how you should NOT use the corona cattle vaccine on humans......Zoetis (mfg co) has come out with a statement..... DUH PEOPLE. It is not the EXACT same corona virus.... but it is in the same family but of a different lineage???? We have been using this for years and years..... why not test some of us farmers and see if we have some of the anti-bodies.....
Remember the milkmaids that were exposed to cow pox.... did not get small pox..... same basics but not exactly the same strain...... the first small pox vaccines were made of cow pox. I have had cows with cow pox.... it is in the family of herpes viruses.... have no intention of getting the shingles vaccine either. Challenging your immune system in a passive manner will make you more resistant to most everything that there is out there. Not saying it is a cure all.... but we have got to stop this "hunkering down " and weakening our systems by limiting things we encounter on a daily basis....
Take care of the older, weaker, at risk groups.

Some seemingly healthy people do get the flu and die too..... we just have to use some COMMON SENSE as to what is the smarter way to go and stop panicking....
 

Senile_Texas_Aggie

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But I am only a dumb farmer.
You may be a farmer, Miss @farmerjan -- after all, it's in your user name -- but you are most definitely NOT dumb! Neither are you, Miss @Ridgetop. The reason that I asked you not to use name-calling is that ANYONE can indulge in name-calling, both those who are wise, as well as those who are dumb or foolish. But when people use name-calling in lieu of reasoned arguments, I am left with the impression that they do not have a strong case for their point of view and that is all that is left for them to use. Regarding the handling of COVID-19, it seems that this country has nothing to boast about when compared to how other countries handled it. I am not naming names nor pointing fingers, just basing my opinion on the total number of cases and deaths.

I had asked you, Miss @Ridgetop, to avoid name-calling so that you would focus on what you would do if you were the governor, or could convince the governor to follow your advice. You and Miss @farmerjan did that just fine. But why I asked that you avoid name-calling, imagine that I were a liberal (horrors, I know) but was willing to listen to a conservative (glory!), knowing that I could very well be wrong in my current opinions and the conservative be right. If I were presented with name-calling instead of reasoned arguments, I would probably conclude that the speaker had no reasoned arguments. Or imagine that I was a conservative (glory!) but was willing to listen to a liberal (horrors, I know), knowing that I could very well be wrong in my current opinions and that the liberal be right. If I were presented with name-calling instead of reasoned arguments, I would probably conclude that the speaker had no reasoned arguments. In other words, I would hope my interlocutor would treat me the same way they would themselves want to be treated, namely with respect.

Thank you again to both of you for your replies.

Senile Texas Aggie
 
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