Signs of deficiency going away... But is that enough?

AlaskanShepherdess

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I've been playing around with trying to give my goats all their mineral need through whole foods. The biggie source has been kelp, which they have been receiving for about 5 weeks now. I doubled the amount they get on Tuesday or Wednesday of this week (to 1 oz per ND). Also about the same time I discovered a nutritional yeast container in the back of my cupboard that has 50% of the RDI daily recommended for humans in copper and 63.4mcg of selenium, amongst other vitamins and minerals, per 3 tbs. I have been giving one heaping tbs per 3 goats currently. Not sure yet how much to work up to.

Anyways. While I was out there this morning I noticed that several of the goats' fishtails (copper deficiency) were beginning to fill in, and look a little more normal. Yay! And all the visible symptoms (the ones I know about) of selenium deficiency disappeared within 2 weeks of my starting the kelp.

What I am wondering though, is that enough just that those signs are going away, or am I still at risk of having kids born with the problems associated with selenium and copper deficiency in about 5 weeks?

Can a goat that is showing no outward symptoms of selenium deficiency still give birth to a kid that will have white muscle disease?

I really want to avoid Bo-Se and copper boluses if I can, but at the same time I don't want to risk my animals. I am searching for food sources for these minerals but I'm worried that I won't find them, and build up their supply in enough time before they give birth.
 

ksalvagno

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I guess only time will tell. But yes, kids can come out weak with low selenium from a seemingly healthy doe. They won't necessarily have white muscle disease but their legs could be weak or they generally can be weak.
 

AlaskanShepherdess

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ksalvagno said:
I guess only time will tell. But yes, kids can come out weak with low selenium from a seemingly healthy doe. They won't necessarily have white muscle disease but their legs could be weak or they generally can be weak.
So WMD will mostly be found in kids from does with obvious selenium deficiency signs?
 

ksalvagno

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I have never had a case of WMD in alpacas or goats so I really can't tell you. I would think that if your goats generally have some selenium, then your kids shouldn't get it. But like all things dealing with life, there is no guarantee. I have seen more leg issues than anything. In alpacas it usually is crooked legs. In goats I just saw weak legs. A shot of BoSe took care of the problem.
 

AlaskanShepherdess

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Oh wow! I just did PPm conversion to mcg to see how much selenium I was giving them and it's a lot! If whoever I was reading was right it's a pretty equal conversion. 0.1 ppm is 0.1 mcg which means I've been giving them too much selenium. *eeek!* Thankfully it's an organic source, but you can still overload on organic sources!

*****EDIT I found what looks to be a more reliable source and they say that it's 1 mg to 1ppm******
 

ohiofarmgirl

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A shot of BoSe took care of the problem.
our 4H neighbor kid is coming over next week to give our ladies their shots. easy peasy!

crownofthorns.. did any of your research talk about BOSS (black oil sunflower seeds) as a source of copper? i think i read somewhere that humans can get copper toxicity from it (couldnt begin to remember where i saw this) so i was wondering if goats could benefit - as far as copper goes

we give it to our ladies when they are milking but i'm currently out. just wondering if i should get another bag or wait until spring?

and they hate the licky-mineral-bucket thing. there was almost an uprising.
 

Our7Wonders

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1 mg = 100 mcg

I think.

A BoSe shot gives 1mg of selenium per ml. And if I have my figures right it's dosed at 1ml per 40 pounds.

But given on a daily basis I have NO idea how much to give. The mineral I use (MannaPro) has decent levels, but I don't think it's enough for our area. I've decided I'm going to give the Selenium E gel at 5 weeks before the due date and then again at 3 weeks before. I plan to add a little extra vitamin E in the last 3 weeks as well. I'm just way too new at this to feel comfortable NOT doing supplemental selenium at this point. My does have not had it at their previous home, but I'm suspecting that the herd may have been copper and selenium defficient.

Keep me posted on what you decide to use and your results.
 

Our7Wonders

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I thought I read that BOSS was high in selenium - but I read so darn much then I can't remember what I read, where - so I could be WAY off.

My girls really like BOSS. I've stopped all grain for now. My girls are getting free choice hay, BOSS and hot soaked shredded beet pulp daily. I'll have to look back in to BOSS again - it was because of the selenium that I wanted to keep it going- but then again, I think my does are likely copper defficient as well, so either way I guess I should stick with it.
 

AlaskanShepherdess

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I've read about BOSS and was actually just getting ready to look into it today. I think it's selenium it's high in. But of course it won't be high in selenium if it came from a se deficient area. :) So watch where yours comes from. :)
 

Calliopia

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1ppm is not a measurement like 1mg or 1 mcg is.

1 ppm means 1 part per million. That means for every 999,999 parts of carrier you have 1 part of active ingredient.

that 1 part can be a gal, a liter, a microgram, a pound or anything depending on how much carrier you have. It's a ratio signifier not a weight or volume measurement.
 

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