Someone tell me why my LGD just grabbed and pinned my goat...

[BlueMoonFarms]

A couple of things here...
this was Trinity, given her good record this I'm sure was a bit unusual.

I would have let it play out a bit longer and here is why.

Often an inexperienced person will jump to a conclusion and not know what was really happening. You said at first she had her mouth on her but no damp coat etc, that makes me thing differently. The goat was screaming took off running and she chased after her.
This is one I would have not intervened so quickly. These dogs are smart and often if we are not very carefully observant we can get it wrong. NOT saying you did or it was it just happens often.

Example- My kids a few months ago yelled for me and said Callie ( the Anatolian) was putting her mouth on the babies and standing over them and they thought she was going to hurt them. Because I know my dogs, and Callie was 1 year I knew right away... NOPE... I went to the back where she was... she did indeed have her mouth on the 1 month old kid and was standing over her... I told my kids to watch.... Callie was gently trying to "MOVE" the kid back to its screaming mother. The doe was frantically calling and the kid wasn't going, Callie was ever so gently standing over and mouth on kid to "walk" the kid back to mom.

You see at first glance we can get it wrong. Overeact and start screaming.

The second scenario you mentioned. Hmmm I 'd a let it play out for two reason. One to see what and why she was doing this and also she is still a pup. Pups can get very confused with an animal screaming in distress. With a young pup they sometimes aren't sure what to do. It is like when you have 2 dogs that are heightened for some reason and they start fighting with each other. Correction required is a must yes, but sometimes it isn't what we think at first glance.

It is common thought that it takes 18-24 months. Truthfully by 12 months the dogs should be stable and very perfected by 18 months.
That doesn't mean a new situation etc may not need to be worked with. The basic soundness of the dog should be evident though.
Occassionally my Pyrs put their big paws up on the goats... it is either to calm the goat, or they want the goat to stay where they are, it can be a protection thing too. Sometimes I have seen the boys bop a goat on the head with their paw... why ... the goat is being aggressive for no reason and the dogs will calm the animal... almost like they are saying "chill" its ok.

I really think 5-8 months is the hardest time for these dogs. Also I want to remind you she can go into heat as early as 8-9 months and generally a month before they can be realllllll idiots. So watch for stupid during that time.

@ GRAZER- milk n honey farm I have talked with them before. They are great
the other sites are showing up with MALWARE so I can't get to them.

They have been getting about two hours of play time for the past week while we have been outside, so should I just keep that up, or tack on another hour?
And if Trinity does it again, should I just let her do it and see what happens then?
Because I mean Annie was really running like a fruit cake with trinity right behind her, then I saw Trinity's mouth on Annie's back and Annie going to the ground, and then yeah, I freaked...
I ran outside, lept the fence and barreled into her then pinned her and started snarling.
Mara paws the lamb when she starts head butting her, and will trot after her when the lamb takes off running, but I have never had trinity so much as think about chasing goats before!

 

[BlueMoonFarms]

Well, yesterday Trinity did it again.
Although this time she grabbed Annie by the neck and there was spit and ruffled hair.
I snarled for her to knock it off, and immediately Trinity did.
This time, we were herding the sheep and catching them one by one to administer lice and mite powder.
I think Trinity gets over exited when something is running, and is taking it out on Annie, because for some reason everyone and there mother loves to beat on that poor goat, and its ONLY ever Annie...
I have known she LOVES to chase birds and is overly interested in the frolicking lamb, but its only ever really the birds, and that's why shes never allowed in with the chickens and ducks, just all of a sudden shes going after Annie when ever she is hyped.
Any advice on how i can redirect this energy?

 

[woodsie]

I would NOT let her chase and see what happens....she probably won't actually hurt her but I have found that the PLAY can be the worst problems to break as it is self rewarding. I start with a little chase, she runs, I chase more, she runs faster.....if you can stop her at the thought of the chase she is much less likely to set up a bad pattern. Lots of praise when she stops instantly....so goes like this - Dog perks up and has that "play stance" bum in air or starting to rear on back legs, you say say in loud calm voice "AHKK!" she stops and stands and looks at you, then praise her with a calm gentle "good girl". My Pyrs seem to respond much better when I can praise what I want them to do (stop playing/chasing)...I think because they have been corrected before they have discovered how fun chasing is.

My male particularily shuts down if I use to harsh force...I have an shock collar/invisible fence running along the fence line and he would not even walk close to the fence for me to walk the perimeter with him because after one WARNING beep he completely shuts down and runs for cover (he had previous homes so there may be excessive force in this history). If I can use small gentle correction I seem to keep their attention longer and get better results.

You may have to hang out in the pasture for a day or two and keep a close eye so you can correct anything right in the bud...but in my opinion, time well spent as you will have a lot less bad habits to break.

Let us know how it goes! Good luck!

 

[Stubbornhillfarm]

Blue Moon, sorry to hear this. I would just encourage you, as we recently have gone through the puppy age that yours are in now. Just stay on them. Watch them, correct them, encourage them, and try to remember they are puppies. I truly think that was the biggest challenge for us. These LGD's are soooooo good most of the time. So trustworthy, responsible and adult like, that we (as owners) become to expect more from them. If they were a black lab, golden retriever, boxer,...insert breed here; we wouldn't be surprised with the puppy behavior. But because of how the LGD's are normally even as puppies, we are taken a-back.

Ours are now 13 months old. They are allowed in the house for a couple of hours in the early evening. Last week, our female decided to tear into our couch in the basement. NEVER, has she done anything like this before and I was appauled. But when our black lab was a puppy, he did stuff like this and WORSE for probably the first year of his life.

I would keep working with both pups. Really watch them to see if you can figure out what is triggering this behaviour. It may be something that you can correct by changing the situation. JMO

 

[Southern by choice]

I do not believe she is "playing" hence the suggestion to watch. It is a behavior issue. This is not play behavior hence the suggestion to allow it to follow through a bit. This is completely out of character for this dog this is why I do not see this as play.

In almost every chase issue it is always the weakest goat, bottom of the pecking order. Yes correction is needed but when you grasp the behavior issue you will have more success in correcting the problem.

 

[BlueMoonFarms]

I do not believe she is "playing" hence the suggestion to watch. It is a behavior issue. This is not play behavior hence the suggestion to allow it to follow through a bit. This is completely out of character for this dog this is why I do not see this as play.

In almost every chase issue it is always the weakest goat, bottom of the pecking order. Yes correction is needed but when you grasp the behavior issue you will have more success in correcting the problem.

Im not entirely sure its play either as she usually only plays with her sister, never the goats.
However, she is displaying the same play actions that she shows with her sister. paws on the back, mouthing along the spine or neck, and chasing.
She is usually fine all day until around milking time, and its only since Adam switched Annie around and she started wailing, *which i forced hubby to go back to a similar schedule to try and eliminate the problem.*
When we chase things to catch them, Trinity is usually pacing, ears pricked, and panting with her eyes intently focused on what ever it is were after. She tends to jump around a lot, and whine. She acts almost like our Siberian husky when the lamb gets close to her pen, and we KNOW what she wants *lamb chops*
I dont think she wants to hurt anyone, and I might have seen this behaviour before in a golden retriever who just got so excited it literally spazzed and just started chasing its tail and barking.
What we did for that dog was change of scenery and pattern. When the dog got excited it was taken for a walk, or redirected into "go find your ball" obviously I cant tell Trinity to go find her bone because shes a bit smarter then that, and im not sure if letting her out to play with her sister instead might help redirect it.
Then again, I have no idea what shes trying to do with Annie.

 

[BlueMoonFarms]

Blue Moon, sorry to hear this. I would just encourage you, as we recently have gone through the puppy age that yours are in now. Just stay on them. Watch them, correct them, encourage them, and try to remember they are puppies. I truly think that was the biggest challenge for us. These LGD's are soooooo good most of the time. So trustworthy, responsible and adult like, that we (as owners) become to expect more from them. If they were a black lab, golden retriever, boxer,...insert breed here; we wouldn't be surprised with the puppy behavior. But because of how the LGD's are normally even as puppies, we are taken a-back.

Ours are now 13 months old. They are allowed in the house for a couple of hours in the early evening. Last week, our female decided to tear into our couch in the basement. NEVER, has she done anything like this before and I was appauled. But when our black lab was a puppy, he did stuff like this and WORSE for probably the first year of his life.

I would keep working with both pups. Really watch them to see if you can figure out what is triggering this behaviour. It may be something that you can correct by changing the situation. JMO

Hey thanks for that!
It is hard to remember there only six months old when there SO BIG and yet so so good at the same time.
Mara appears to have turned around for the best and she listens very well now because of the intense work we had to put into her for a few months, so i am hoping the same will be for Trinity as soon as we figure out how to work with her new habit.
Thanks for the encouragement!

 

[treeclimber233]

What I did to stop the mouthing and slobbering on the neck/shoulder area was to put a little tabasco sauce on the goat. Last year Drift was really slobbering up all the babies. All the babies seemed to be fair game to him. This year I added an 8 week old buckling to the herd. Since he does not have a mother to run to he is the bottom of the heap. Drift started mouthing him so I immediately put some tobacco sauce on him. Worked like a charm.

 

[treeclimber233]

What I did to stop the mouthing and slobbering on the neck/shoulder area was to put a little tabasco sauce on the goat. Last year Drift was really slobbering up all the babies. All the babies seemed to be fair game to him. This year I added an 8 week old buckling to the herd. Since he does not have a mother to run to he is the bottom of the heap. Drift started mouthing him so I immediately put some tobacco sauce on him. Worked like a charm.

 

[goat boy]

Hi I have had a huge problem with my LGD. he chases the goats he bites there ears back and drags them across the feild by there leg somtimes. i have no idea what to do. i go out there yell at him spank him slap his nose tell him NO nothing works and keeps on doing that to the newborn kids that are 4 weeks. What do i do?