Tell me about navel ill. Which antibiotic?

Our7Wonders

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I have been dealing with one issue after another. I should be due for some relief soon, but none is in sight yet.

The littlest new guy is still having issues. He's eating normally - playing, etc. But still not pooping normally. I watch him for at least an hour after his bottles. Never poops. His herd-mates usually poop two or three times within that time. Him: Nada. He pees but doesn't poop. So I get to enema the kid at least once a day. Just warm soapy water. I can usually get him to produce a little after several soapy water inserts. But it's very little. He seems to nibble regularly on hay and on bushes and weeds when I let him out. He also gets three 10oz. bottles each day. His bottles are 50/50 goat milk/vit D whole milk - no replacer at all. I've been adding a tsp of corn syrup to one bottle each day hoping it will help get things rolling - so far no go.

I noticed a smell yesterday- couldn't pin point where it was coming from. I could smell it on my hands after I had handled the goats. A sour smell. Tonight, after little guy's enema I could really smell that smell again. I checked his tummy and its swollen around his umbillical stump - and smelly - like infection. It has been one thing after another with him. He's three weeks old now and I was just about to start his cocci prevention. I know it's been mentioned that cocci will occasionally present with constipation rather than scours - I was hoping treating him might get him pooping again. Now I don't know if I should start it since I'll likely need to start a long round of antibiotics for navel ill.

So tell me, what do I need to do for this? I have Pen G and biomycin (I think that's what it is - the one like LA-200 but without the sting). I have a feed store close by that has some meds, though not as many as I think they should. Can I do some topical cleaning as well? I have a vet that I can likely get an Rx from if it's necessary. He's not all that goat knowledgable but with obvious symptoms I think he'll be willing to help.
 

Roll farms

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Bless your heart you're really running the goat gauntlet, aren't you? :hugs

I'd be dipping the navel in 7% iodine (not gentle) and giving antibiotics. I've never dealt w/ it (suspected but never sure).

Here's the info I found...
http://www.goatwisdom.com/ch1baby_care/navel_ill.html

http://members4.boardhost.com/goatlady/msg/1207051309.html

Both recommend treating w/ pen g...but fiasco suggests biomycin (oxytetracycline).
http://fiascofarm.com/goats/medications.htm#oxytetracycline

Just remember you can't switch off between pen g and oxytet so whichever you go with, stick with...

Good luck!
 

aggieterpkatie

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And when you dip his navel area make sure to really get it up all the way to the top against his belly. You can use a film canister filled 1/2 way with the 7% iodine, and bounce it up against his stomach (holding it firmly to his belly) so it gets all the way up there. If you're by yourself, you can hold his hips in between your knees and use one hand to hold under his chest, then use your other hand to dip. Good luck!
 

Our7Wonders

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Some of what I read said PenG isn't all that effective anymore and that oxytetracycline works better. Fiasco Farm does say to use the oxytet for navel ill - but in the same section it says to NOT use on goats who are nursing or on the bottle because milk makes it ineffective. Aren't most cases of navel ill in baby goats who would obviously be on milk?

Then another site says that the milk making it ineffective isn't true - does anyone know for sure? I want to get him started on something right away but really don't know which one.

Sorry to always be so needy!
 

aggieterpkatie

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I've never successfully treated navel ill. The sheep 201 website says to use long acting pen. I'd start with that.
 

Our7Wonders

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Thanks - I think that's what I'm going to do - too many inconsistancies surrounding the oxytet.

I've gotta say, though, I'm really freaked out about injecting an antibiotic. The possibility of hitting a vein scares the crap out of me. It's suggested that you use an 18 guage needle, which is fairly good sized. How do you miss all the little tiny veins that run in these guys? Eeeek - I've gotta do it because I know he needs it but I think I need a big shot of courage first.

Any possibility of pen being given orally? Not likely, huh? I've never seen it suggested that way so I'm assuming not. 2x/day for 7 days - that's alot of shots.

Did I mention this freaks me out? Yeah, I admit it, I'm a wuss.
 

Our7Wonders

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I just found the below info. What do you think? Any possibility? I've given plenty of other injections SubQ - the PenG just freaks me out. I'm a big baby.

Brand Name: Penicillin
Active Ingredient(s): Procaine Penicillin G
Availability: OTC
Withdrawal: 8 days before slaughter; 48hr. milk discard
Indications:
Penicillin is effective against local and systematic infections such as Streptococcus, Clostridium, Staphylococcus, and Salmonella. Also it is very effective against anaerobic organisms. Can be given IM, SQ, PO, as a mammary infusion, and topically.
Dosage: 5,000-15,000IU/1lb
Goat Notes: Effective on gram positive and limited gram negative bacteria. Goats require larger doses than other animals. Adult goats should receive an initial dose of 10cc and follow up doses of 7-8cc. Never give more than 5cc in each injection site. Can be given IM, SQ (most preferred method) or PO.
Brand Name: Pen BP-48
Active Ingredient(s): Penicillin G benzathine & Penicillin G Procaine
Availability: OTC
Withdrawal: 30 days before slaughter
Indications:
FDA approved for gram positive bacterial infections and black leg (Clostridium Chauvoei) in cattle.
Dosage: 2ml/150lbs body weight - IM or SQ
Goat Notes: 5cc-10cc for adult goats (5cc IM; rest SQ)
 

20kidsonhill

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That is what I use, 1cc per 15lbs, twice a day. The plain Penn G, not the longer acting.

If you are worried about all the veins, give it in her/his bottom instead of the neck, in the fleshy part of the leg. I use a 20gauge on the smaller kids, but an 18 is probably better for the Penn G.

I tuck them under my left arm, with their head facing to the back of me, and prop my left leg up on a chair or ledge, and lay the baby over the top of my leg so their bottom is facing toward the left, and then use my left hand to steady the back leg and stick in the needle with my right hand.
If that makes any sense.


I have given lots and lots of shots. You will be fine.
 

Roll farms

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I have given loads of shots, pen g, vaccines, bo se, etc....and other than the ouchie stingy ones where the meds burn, I've never hurt a goat yet...99.9% of the time I do it in the 'butt cheek'. YOU CAN DO IT!

The label you described is for short acting...Which is what I use. If you decide to go w/ long acting, it usually has a name like Combi-Pen or some such.
It won't have 'Procaine G' on the label.
 

Our7Wonders

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20kidsonhill said:
If you are worried about all the veins, give it in her/his bottom instead of the neck, in the fleshy part of the leg.
So do you to give it IM instead of subQ?


And I'll have to check in my fridge downstairs, but I'm pretty sure I ordered just plain ordinary Pen G from jefferslivestock. I'll have to go look.
 
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