The Sheep Shape Shire….A journey of sorts….

[farmerjan]

We have never used a bolt stunner. I hate to cut throats, but that is the way we do it. Quick, and as @Baymule said, fast bleedout, I agree that it is the most humane way. Using the cone is preferable so they don't flap and flop around and no bruising of the meat. I mostly have mine killed by a Mennonite farmer that has a mechanical plucker and all... it is too time consuming for one person to do... and when I am raising up meat birds that I get from a couple of commercial poultry houses when they come in and get them all... I get the "left behinds" that are often smaller... and they grow out quite nicely in a more natural "free range" type set up... and they are past the heat and brooding stage... There are usually 20-50 at a time that get done. It is worth it to pay $3 a piece to get them killed, plucked, cleaned, and in vacuum bags, chilled in the cooler; ( I can get them frozen also for a little more but usually do not since I can spread them out and get them frozen in my freezers and in a couple hours or the next day, I go pick them up. I do not have the time nor the facilities to do them myself in those quantities... Have done many over the years.... Plus they will do turkeys for a little more and they can be harder to handle.. I don't mind paying a fellow farmer for a service like that.

 

[Legamin]

A bolt stunner for chickens does a good job for those who have a hard time with other methods. Personally I would not use one. I use a killing cone and cut the throat with a sharp knife. They are unconscious in seconds. The brain tells the heart to keep pumping and they bleed out. I feel it is the most humane way of slaughtering a chicken. The cone holds their wings against their body, they don’t flap around. They may kick with their legs, I just hold them snugly until they quit kicking.

I’ve seen that on homesteading videos. It looks like a great system…something I could put together in my machine shop. Probably the way we will go. Thanks again

 

[farmerjan]

Know a guy who got some "throw away" cones from the state DOT that were damaged, and cut off the bottoms and used the skinnier end as cones for killing....

 

[Legamin]

I suppose I could go back to the beginning to explain my desire to surround myself with animals and the beauty of God’s creation…as seen through the modified lens of ‘The Farm’. While I have lived abroad for my career and spent much of my time traveling my life has not always been like that…at least that is not the way it started.
As unsavory as it all seems now, I am a Southern California born boy from back when that state was a beautiful place with shiny new highways and sprawling suburbia and even farm land right up close to the beaches of La Jolla just 20 minutes from the San Diego Zoo! Our little 1 acre farm, which was sold to my blue collar dad for $17,000..(a small fortune to a nurse…and a cop…in the late 1950’s) was a dream come true for our family of 6 plus nurse-grandma who worked a tough job in the city psychiatric ward..and helped with the down payment on the property…and lived in the tiny shed converted to a house down the hill from the main house (where I spent most of my time). Things were much different then. 55 years ago I could walk 1 mile to school through San Diego streets without concern for my safety. It wasn’t downtown or anything but that same area is now prickling with condominiums that have long fallen into sorry disrepair in neighborhoods best untraveled by tourists or those valuing their personal safety…those condominiums with no yard now selling for $2.5 million.…things have changed a great deal in my lifetime. Back then the brown haze over the downtown area was called ‘Smog’ and it was only loosely related to industry, shipping and cars (smoking and backyard trash fires)…mostly it was just ‘Smog’…and we knew we didn’t want too much more of it. Now there are gases of all colors and chemicals somehow dangerous that we ought not to breath..all very much more complicated than ‘Smog’… Of course now the skies over San Diego are much cleaner and brighter and it is the streets that have become dangerous in which to breath…
But I digress…
My parents were very health conscious and decided that they would return to their roots and start a menagerie resembling the farms of my mother’s youth. So animals were sought out and added to the makeshift hutches, cages, pens and sheds that littered the area behind our house. Goats, rabbits, chickens, ducks and a large Turkey named Sam…who might have been ‘Samantha’…because of our general lack of expertise we will never know any more than after a year of making Sam our delightful pet…he or she…was DELICIOUS!
Our lives went on with the garden (which was the jungle through which my plastic preformed army men fought bravely) and the menagerie which supplied our weekly ‘big meal’..and leftovers for several days..and the milking stall, (a particular favorite of mine because the cat and I got alternating squirts of warm fresh goat’s milk) which provided endless lessons from my father in biology, hoof management and swear words with which my five year old self was grossly unfamiliar…but knew better than to repeat in Sunday School.
THIS was my introduction to the wonder of ‘Farm Life’ those 55 years ago. It lasted for about 6 years before we moved to Lake Tahoe for a job opportunity for my father and our lives took a dramatic turn for the different…as we adjusted to small city life in a tourist town. It was here that I learned so much more about the wonder of the ‘National Forest’ where I spent most of my days wandering aimlessly checking each different tree and learning the names of every flower and bird from my ever present and wise grandmother. I learned a great deal about nature and the Bible on those daily afternoon meanderings through miles and miles of ‘Natonal Forest’ (I neither understood nor cares why that particular forest was ‘National’..)
But during the home farm days in San Diego I learned many things that plagued my mind throughout my life. no matter who we are, where we come from, what our parents do for a living, we are all connected deeply to the land. Even living in the middle of a rapidly growing city who’s skyline is defined by ‘Smog’ and where the downtown streets and university campuses are filled with ‘unrest’…it was a different time yet I learned everyday as I checked off my list of ‘chores’, carefully tailored to the skills of a five year old, that everything…animal, mineral or plant…has a unique purpose for being and it was somehow partly MY responsibility to be a ‘good steward’ of the parts of it that were closest around me and placed in my care. This meant a little less play and a little more dirty work. It meant smells that I didn’t like…smells that would bring back fond memories throughout my life every time they wafted across my path…and it meant daily life lessons that would inform my values, shape my thinking and press me to ask questions constantly whenever I came across something in the world that I did not understand.
My early life on our small city bound menagerie has shaped the last 55 years of my life for the better. And only now as I return to it. Mull it over. Massage and ‘improve’ some of the stories and facts of my misspent youth for the benefit of the ‘Interweb’…do I realize the significant impact that those animals, those chores….those SMELLS…have had on every facet of my life since then.
So now you know where I started and you have a rough idea of where I’ve ended up. I hope as time goes on I can share just where i…WE…are going. Because I don’t feel alone at all on this journey. I don’t feel as if this experience is just mine. It is as if this were a shared consciousness…a story that is being observed through windows of thought, literary device and shared experience with the animals which touch our lives as we herd..and are herded by them.
God bless you all as we travel this dirt road together. I think we will have a wonderful day together!

Know a guy who got some "throw away" cones from the state DOT that were damaged, and cut off the bottoms and used the skinnier end as cones for killing....

makes good sense..those are available cheap all over the place. I have some galvanized sheet steel in my machine shop begging to be used and that’s ‘free’..and very permenant! Thanks for the idea..I’m not above using the creativity of others for my own benefit!

 

[Legamin]

We have never used a bolt stunner. I hate to cut throats, but that is the way we do it. Quick, and as @Baymule said, fast bleedout, I agree that it is the most humane way. Using the cone is preferable so they don't flap and flop around and no bruising of the meat. I mostly have mine killed by a Mennonite farmer that has a mechanical plucker and all... it is too time consuming for one person to do... and when I am raising up meat birds that I get from a couple of commercial poultry houses when they come in and get them all... I get the "left behinds" that are often smaller... and they grow out quite nicely in a more natural "free range" type set up... and they are past the heat and brooding stage... There are usually 20-50 at a time that get done. It is worth it to pay $3 a piece to get them killed, plucked, cleaned, and in vacuum bags, chilled in the cooler; ( I can get them frozen also for a little more but usually do not since I can spread them out and get them frozen in my freezers and in a couple hours or the next day, I go pick them up. I do not have the time nor the facilities to do them myself in those quantities... Have done many over the years.... Plus they will do turkeys for a little more and they can be harder to handle.. I don't mind paying a fellow farmer for a service like that.

As we consider how to expand and where to push (or withdraw)our efforts I think we will be looking at some of the tools that make life easier. A basic $1000 ‘defeatherator’ with quality machined parts would pay for itself in about 2 years. With my home built cone and a knife I think I could add this to our ‘clean room’ (where animals are butchered (slaughter occurs outside), carcasses are readied for the freezer and then meat saw, and where honey is extracted after a thorough cleaning and bleaching. We have about $6,500 into the clean room including the structure and machinery and the product that comes out of it will have reimbursed us for all of it within 2 years…which is kind of our goal for any and all purchases when considering if it will make our expansion easier.
honey extractor, 3 ton hoist with galley for movement, stainless cutting table, dedicated meat bandsaw, freezer, knives, possibly soon ‘defeatherator’ and we are thinking about a dedicated meat grinder….we’ll see how things go…. But we are looking at rabbit hutches which is far more efficient, clean and ‘reproductive’ than chickens and has a much higher POS profit point with a far wider market. I can’t compete with wholesale prices of chicken for our local restaurants needs but I CAN produce rabbit quickly, cleanly and in large quantities to meet their needs for about half of the local wholesale price point….and still make about $15.00 per carcass. Less feed, less work to clean and faster processing and scarcity of available product in the area all point to much higher profit margin for my efforts. But such production would mean year round production and I would have to wire in a $1,200 electric heater in the ‘clean room’ for year round work…something unnecessary for the two seasons of slaughter for lamb and one season per year honey collection…so it’s all in the works! Cost/Benefit….more lists….more work!

 

[Baymule]

Are you going to raise your rabbits in hanging wire cages? They are much easier to clean than wood frame hutches.

 

[Legamin]

A bolt stunner for chickens does a good job for those who have a hard time with other methods. Personally I would not use one. I use a killing cone and cut the throat with a sharp knife. They are unconscious in seconds. The brain tells the heart to keep pumping and they bleed out. I feel it is the most humane way of slaughtering a chicken. The cone holds their wings against their body, they don’t flap around. They may kick with their legs, I just hold them snugly until they quit kicking.

If you get into chicken production on a larger scale there is a very lucrative market in the combs, waddle and foot cartilage of many breeds of chicken. The standard is high as it is a medical procedure product but you could essentially toss the chicken and sell these parts and make good money (no one would do that right?).

 

[Legamin]

Are you going to raise your rabbits in hanging wire cages? They are much easier to clean than wood frame hutches.

The short answer is yes, premade wire cages suspended in large wooden support frames under cover. This way I can put up canvas walls for Winter (no insulation or heat is needed down to -20F) and so it can coexist under one end of the large mobile chicken shed and carry 200 rabbits at low capacity and 800 maximum. I would probably have the full 800 and hire stunner/skinners/cleaners and do the butchering myself. A four man team can process 200 rabbits per day and just have one ship out date every 4 weeks. Keeping the rabbits revolving on a 16 week maturity date and 30 day breeding cycle this means once per month part time workers at a total cost of about $1400 per day. As long as the market holds up this is a great way to outsource labor and hire local people part time. I hate book keeping so that would have to be hired out or sent to a company like ADP…something simple for stupid and slow brains like mine.

 

[Ridgetop]

I suggest you start smaller than 800 breeding does. We had a 100 hole (cage) semi commercial rabbitry before the children converted it to a goat and sheep barn for their 4-h projects. DH showed NZWs and was extremely successful in producing high quality rabbits. He had people coming to him for breeding trios from all over southern CA and that before websites and the internet! Since we only kept the very best ones for breeding and showing we were selling a lot of fryers.

Feeding, breeding and keeping records of kindling dates, palpating for pregnancy, bedding and putting in nest boxes, checking on kits, removing and sterilizing next boxes, weighing and weaning bunnies was my job. Also all paperwork, getting feed and mixing the grain formula we fed the does, making sure we had shavings and straw for the next boxes, checking automatic water lines to make sure they were working, all repairs, and annual cleaning and burning of the cages was also my job. It took about 3-4 hours daily. DH sorted the bunnies since he was good at telling a truly good rabbit from another. That took another couple hours once a month along with tattooing the rabbits that we were keeping as breeders and show prospects. I bred the does on an accelerated program and fed 18% protein feed to the does that were pregnant and lactating.

800 breeding does will be a full time job so you might want to scale down. Instead of hiring someone to butcher, check to see if you are on the route of any commercial rabbit buyers. These are guys that follow a route buying live fryers from producers. They take them live which avoids any health rules you might have regarding selling butchered animals. You need to check the state and county laws before planning a butchering business. Some areas require a Grade A facility with regular health inspections.

DH will start a rabbitry in our new home in Texas. He will be using Californians since we have come to prefer them to NZs. California does are about 2 lbs. lighter than NZs which make them easier to handle when breeding. They are also more docile which makes them more pleasant to work with. While most NZ kits need 10 weeks to reach 5 lbs (optimum weight for fryers) Cals will reach 5 lbs at 8 weeks. Feeding fryers for 8 weeks instead of 10 weeks is important for a commercial operation.

Rabbits are seasonal breeders so you will need to run lights either full time or on timers in the rabbitry to keep them breeding through the winter months. Likewise in the heat of summer rabbit bucks will often go temporarily sterile. Heat is a killer for rabbits, but low emit misters around the exterior walls do a great job of lowering the temperatures. You will want to keep junior bucks for summer breeding and pan to breed before the heat of summer. By cutting the amount of bedding in the nest boxes you can lessen the danger of heat death to the kits. Or pan for the does to be bred before the worst of the heat so they will be kindling when the temps start to go down. Depending on the orientation of your rabbit barn, you will be able to decide how to adjust these dates.

Shade cloth on the western side in the summer and canvas covers - painter's drop cloths with grommets you can add yourself are perfect. Either of these can be rolled up when not needed and tied up with hay ropes.

Use worm pits under the cages. You can also sell the manure in the pits to gardeners, especially organic gardeners if you can't use it all yourself. Use automatic drinkers but be sure to either bury the water lines leading to the drinkers, or insulate them so the water stays at a drinkable temperature in summer and doesn't freeze in the pipes in winter. Don't free feed. If a rabbit is not finishing up his ration check the drinkers to make sure they are working. Rabbits are night feeders so empty the feeders every evening before feeding. If rats get in the feeders they will pee and poop on the feed and the rabbits will refuse to eat it. Screen backed feeders will keep the feed free of "fines" - the dust that will accumulate in crocks or solid backed feeders. Rabbits won't eat that dust and it can cause respiratory problems

You will want to start with good quality breeding rabbits. Show rabbits may seem expensive but several of these used as herd bucks will improve the carcass quality when bred to poorer does. Show rabbits are judged on how much meat they carry which is why I suggest them for breeding bucks.

One good way to get a lot of good rabbits quickly and cheaply is to visit your local Fair and put up notices in the rabbit barn saying you will buy all unsold meat pen trios. Many fairs only allow the Champion and Reserve Champion meat pens to sell. Other fairs will allow only a certain number of the top placing pens to auction while still others allow the kids to enter 2 pens each but only auction one pen. These rabbit pens will be abut 8 weeks old, but are a good way to start with lots of good to excellent meat does. Many of the pens will be higher quality. We used to offer to buy all unsold pens and usually brought home 30-45 bunnies from the fair at rock bottom prices because the kids had other litters at home and many families looked at the bunnies as pets and wouldn't butcher them. Ask if the kids have any others they want to sell when doing this since many families won't eat their rabbits and the pet market can only handle so many meat size rabbits. Use the does as your startup herd and butcher the bucks for your freezer or for private sale.

Once you have the rabbits housed and are breeding you can cull out the ones that don't produce well or that don't produce the type of carcasses you want. Build up gradually to the number that fits with the time you want to put into them.

I loved breeding rabbits and DH loved showing them. We hope to get back to it. I have kept a dozen cages, automatic watering stuff, along with all our other equipment and will be taking it to our ranch in Texas where we will set up one of the outside wings of our barn as a small rabbitry.

 

[Legamin]

I suggest you start smaller than 800 breeding does. We had a 100 hole (cage) semi commercial rabbitry before the children converted it to a goat and sheep barn for their 4-

I suggest you start smaller than 800 breeding does. We had a 100 hole (cage) semi commercial rabbitry before the children converted it to a goat and sheep barn for their 4-h projects. DH showed NZWs and was extremely successful in producing high quality rabbits. He had people coming to him for breeding trios from all over southern CA and that before websites and the internet! Since we only kept the very best ones for breeding and showing we were selling a lot of fryers.

Feeding, breeding and keeping records of kindling dates, palpating for pregnancy, bedding and putting in nest boxes, checking on kits, removing and sterilizing next boxes, weighing and weaning bunnies was my job. Also all paperwork, getting feed and mixing the grain formula we fed the does, making sure we had shavings and straw for the next boxes, checking automatic water lines to make sure they were working, all repairs, and annual cleaning and burning of the cages was also my job. It took about 3-4 hours daily. DH sorted the bunnies since he was good at telling a truly good rabbit from another. That took another couple hours once a month along with tattooing the rabbits that we were keeping as breeders and show prospects. I bred the does on an accelerated program and fed 18% protein feed to the does that were pregnant and lactating.

800 breeding does will be a full time job so you might want to scale down. Instead of hiring someone to butcher, check to see if you are on the route of any commercial rabbit buyers. These are guys that follow a route buying live fryers from producers. They take them live which avoids any health rules you might have regarding selling butchered animals. You need to check the state and county laws before planning a butchering business. Some areas require a Grade A facility with regular health inspections.

DH will start a rabbitry in our new home in Texas. He will be using Californians since we have come to prefer them to NZs. California does are about 2 lbs. lighter than NZs which make them easier to handle when breeding. They are also more docile which makes them more pleasant to work with. While most NZ kits need 10 weeks to reach 5 lbs (optimum weight for fryers) Cals will reach 5 lbs at 8 weeks. Feeding fryers for 8 weeks instead of 10 weeks is important for a commercial operation.

Rabbits are seasonal breeders so you will need to run lights either full time or on timers in the rabbitry to keep them breeding through the winter months. Likewise in the heat of summer rabbit bucks will often go temporarily sterile. Heat is a killer for rabbits, but low emit misters around the exterior walls do a great job of lowering the temperatures. You will want to keep junior bucks for summer breeding and pan to breed before the heat of summer. By cutting the amount of bedding in the nest boxes you can lessen the danger of heat death to the kits. Or pan for the does to be bred before the worst of the heat so they will be kindling when the temps start to go down. Depending on the orientation of your rabbit barn, you will be able to decide how to adjust these dates.

Shade cloth on the western side in the summer and canvas covers - painter's drop cloths with grommets you can add yourself are perfect. Either of these can be rolled up when not needed and tied up with hay ropes.

Use worm pits under the cages. You can also sell the manure in the pits to gardeners, especially organic gardeners if you can't use it all yourself. Use automatic drinkers but be sure to either bury the water lines leading to the drinkers, or insulate them so the water stays at a drinkable temperature in summer and doesn't freeze in the pipes in winter. Don't free feed. If a rabbit is not finishing up his ration check the drinkers to make sure they are working. Rabbits are night feeders so empty the feeders every evening before feeding. If rats get in the feeders they will pee and poop on the feed and the rabbits will refuse to eat it. Screen backed feeders will keep the feed free of "fines" - the dust that will accumulate in crocks or solid backed feeders. Rabbits won't eat that dust and it can cause respiratory problems

You will want to start with good quality breeding rabbits. Show rabbits may seem expensive but several of these used as herd bucks will improve the carcass quality when bred to poorer does. Show rabbits are judged on how much meat they carry which is why I suggest them for breeding bucks.

One good way to get a lot of good rabbits quickly and cheaply is to visit your local Fair and put up notices in the rabbit barn saying you will buy all unsold meat pen trios. Many fairs only allow the Champion and Reserve Champion meat pens to sell. Other fairs will allow only a certain number of the top placing pens to auction while still others allow the kids to enter 2 pens each but only auction one pen. These rabbit pens will be abut 8 weeks old, but are a good way to start with lots of good to excellent meat does. Many of the pens will be higher quality. We used to offer to buy all unsold pens and usually brought home 30-45 bunnies from the fair at rock bottom prices because the kids had other litters at home and many families looked at the bunnies as pets and wouldn't butcher them. Ask if the kids have any others they want to sell when doing this since many families won't eat their rabbits and the pet market can only handle so many meat size rabbits. Use the does as your startup herd and butcher the bucks for your freezer or for private sale.

Once you have the rabbits housed and are breeding you can cull out the ones that don't produce well or that don't produce the type of carcasses you want. Build up gradually to the number that fits with the time you want to put into them.

I loved breeding rabbits and DH loved showing them. We hope to get back to it. I have kept a dozen cages, automatic watering stuff, along with all our other equipment and will be taking it to our ranch in Texas where we will set up one of the outside wings of our barn as a small rabbitry.

Wow! Lots of info. I probably wasn’t as clear as I could have been. 800 breeding does would be far too many for me! I am thinking of a number closer to 100 breeders with a total of 800 rabbits including all the bunnies maturing at varying stages and gaining for market. They would cycle out at about 200 per month and I would only breed enough rabbits at that time to replace the outgoing number. I have a well set up barn that is currently not in use but hate to move it all indoors. But that is not out of the question as it would simplify the water, food and lighting/heating during the coldest parts of Winter. We ran into the same issue with chickens and found that heated water and controlled feed bins solved many issues…we had wild birds flying in and making off with over 5lb of food per day more than the chickens could eat! We installed a light system to trick them into laying all but 3 weeks during the Winter…the shells got thin for a few weeks but then firmed right up. I’m pretty methodical so moving through 800 total rabbits twice per day would just add a few hours in the morning and evening. The bees are the least predictable as far as time consumption because with them you have to wait and see and then act quickly when the time is right for splitting, queen breeding, etc. etc. I just about put myself out of commission the other day out frost planting our back acreage. There is an area that all had to be done by hand that I thought would take a few hours….suddenly it was 15F degrees, high winds, dark and getting colder and my artificial knees didn’t want to move very well…and I was a mile from the house with 80lbs of gear to haul back. My wife came out and found me and I spent two days recovering from hypothermia and dehydration…dumb mistake…lost track of time while enjoying my work!
I don’t want to grow too quickly as I will be developing a customer base and hate to waste or store too long…that takes the profit out of it. For the first year I want to focus on breeding and carcass size and getting the system simplified for my own best benefit. Once we get that going it will be like the bees…start with 4 hives and work towards 300. I put everything on a 5 year plan and if it takes longer I don’t sweat it. I also have to consider the inevitable issue of farming from a wheel chair. There is no set time on that but I have to plan everything around that firm eventuality. And and gravity will have us all. I’m no exception….unless that CBD oil advertisement was RIGHT! (Sarcastic laughter). Thanks for all your information. I’m printing it up and putting it on file to go over as I plan and put things together. I’ve got to reside the house, reside a new sheep barn, renovate a goat barn and set up a new sheep handling system as well as build out a new portable chicken coop to increase out chicken population by 10 fold. Somewhere I have to fit in 3 miles of new fencing… so with all the normal gardening, field harvest, pasture movement and stuff….like finishing our home’s hardwood floors and building new kitchen cabinets…It should be busy Spring/Summer/Fall!