To Sell Or Not To Sell?

[Goatgirl47]

Some of you may already know that my number 1 goal for my goats is hardiness - parasite resistance, little or no grain - but with good milk production too.
One of my goats, Annie, who is a purebred Alpine doe, gives me grief about that. She is not very hardy. Neither was her mother or sister, whom we recently sold because of that.
My plan is to breed some of my larger does to a meat/dairy cross buck at the end of this year, to raise hardier kids who (if they are does) will also give more milk then the average meat goat. But I probably won't be able to breed Annie to a meat/dairy buck this year, because like her mother, Annie is not a very big goat so if I keep her long enough I'd probably breed her to our Lamancha buck.
Annie is a very affectionate and sweet goat, and the only reason I am even thinking of selling her is because by keeping her I am not sticking to my plans very well.

I was thinking :

Plan A: Sell Annie, and buy a dairy/meat cross doe to replace her. I will still buy a meat/dairy cross buck this fall.

Plan B: Sell Annie, and buy another older purebred dairy goat that I will be able to breed to a meat/dairy cross buck this year.

Plan C: Keep Annie, breed her this year to my Lamancha buck, feed her out for another year and then breed her again in the fall of 2018 to a meat/dairy buck, and if she has a doeling, I will keep it and sell her. The only problem with this is that I don't want to have to feed her out for two more years. Alpines eat a lot.



Thanks!

 

[ragdollcatlady]

I have found that my meat goats need alot of food. My boers are serious eating machines! They eat more than my nubian, my standard breed, dairy goat. Some of my nigerians can stay beautifully conditioned on just hay and some pasture when not producing, but during lactation and pregnancy, even they need some extra input.

If you don't want to feed her for 2 more years, then sell her. But keep in mind that meat or meat cross kids might eat more than she does. Another standard dairy goat might eat alot as well, and lactating does will probably need more supplementing to provide milk....

If you are wanting the meat crosses and Annie isn't a pet, maybe you want to "upgrade". If she happens to be a pet, then maybe the cost of feeding her will outweigh the wait to get meat cross kids from her in a few years.

 

[babsbag]

I second what @ragdollcatlady said about Boers and eating...they ate rings around my Alpine does. In what way is Annie not 'hardy'?

 

[Goatgirl47]

@ragdollcatlady, do you mean your Boer goats eat/need more grain then your Nubians and Nigerians? I don't really mind if they eat more hay/forage/pasture, that is what I expected. I want our goats to get to the point where they don't NEED grain. I will maybe give them beet pulp and alfalfa pellets during their lactation, but the organic grain we buy is super, super expensive.

 

[Latestarter]

If the present animal isn't accomplishing or moving toward the goal of your plan, then why would you keep it? Especially in a breeding program where that animals traits are going to account for 50% of the offspring's traits... You should be striving to only keep and breed the best animals that move you forward toward your goal.

If it's a pet, then it should not be included as part of the plan in the first place.

If the #3 goal is good milk production, then why are you considering breeding away from pure dairy and into crosses with meat goats? Meat production was not one of your stated plans or goals (above).

Hardiness is not a factor of meat goat vs dairy goat. You could just as easily cross breed to a meat goat and end up with worse hardiness. If it's parasite reduction and less need for chemical wormers you're looking for, then you should be doing routine fecal monitoring for EPG counts on all of your animals and comparing the counts against the animal's body condition and health overal... How they are handling the egg loads they are presently carrying? Some animals handle the parasites better than others and you could have one goat with a high count that is the epitome of health and have another with very low counts that is floundering and needs constant de-worming to even maintain...

If you're looking to specialize in hardy cross breeds that produce more meat than dairy and more milk than meat breeds, there are already crosses out there and there's no real need to re-invent the wheel... But you'll still need to plan breeding of those to produce better hardiness over time as well.

 

[Goatgirl47]

@babsbag - Annie is built like her mother and just doesn't maintain weight very well without a lot of grain. She was struggling with worms last summer/fall, but after that was steadily gaining back what she'd lost. I am going to run a fecal on her and a few of my other goats one of these days.

@Latestarter - The reason I am wanting to cross my dairy goats with meat breeds isn't because I think the meat side of them will make them less prone to parasites, but if I am correct, meat goats don't need as much grain (if they even need any at all) then dairy goats usually need to maintain physical health. Our two Fainting goats never needed any grain. And I know that every goat is different, I just think meat/dairy crosses would be a little better for our situation. Our dairy/beef cross cows don't need any grain either (though I'm not saying that all dairy cows are dependent on grain) and that is my number one goal for my goats.
Once we reach that goal (little or no grain) I would like to start focusing on hardiness towards parasites.

I think I will give Annie two more months. On our next Azure pickup we ordered organic grain for her, and will start introducing it as soon as it comes. Thanks everyone for your input!

 

[ragdollcatlady]

My experience is primarily with nigerians, a couple nubians and for the last couple years, some boers.

Yes, I did mean that my boers need more food AND more grain to stay in good condition. At first, I treated them like bigger dairy goats. However it turns out that they end up too skinny when only fed a high quality alfalfa and whatever pasture is available. I mean when I fed my boers that way, I could feel ribs in a way that makes me uncomfortable. I respect a lean animal in good condition so please don't mistake me here. I should feel my animals ribs when I touch and press ever so slightly, but they should not be seen. My goats are working and producing so there are constant changes in body condition.

My pure nubian can put away alot of food when she is in milk, but a dry boer can eat that much just to maintain her larger muscled frame. In one pen, my 4 biggest boer does in milk are eating about 24 lbs of grain a day along with 4 heavy flakes of alfalfa hay. This is limiting the feed they could use, but for now is enough to get us by, as 2 had kids just this weekend. They will probably be going through several lbs more per day by the time I wean the kids in a couple months.

I have found through trial and error that I have to feed them differently.

The goats that stay in the best condition off of pasture and hay alone are my dry nigerians (and so far the young mini nubian and mini boer). Most of my nigerians to date, have 2-5 kids per kidding and my boers average 2-3. That takes calories and nutrition that are easier to provide through supplements. I also prefer for kids to have the nutritional benefit grain mixes give as they are growing.

I don't think you will be any happier with another purebred (or well bred) standard dairy goat as they frequently need alot of input, especially for those bred for top production. Perhaps you might research Kiko goats or see if a different meat cross already has the traits you are looking for.

 

[samssimonsays]

I don't have personal experience with boers but I honestly have had excellent luck with my mix dairy doe vs my pure breds. My youngest nubian who was bought had some issues with parasites due to being on Molly a herbals his entire life before getting him. I will never buy a goat in a natural wormer regiment again because of it. He has no tolerance for it naturally unless it's being administered regularly and that is not ok to me. My Alpine are very hardy tho. So it is not the breed that is the issue.

Many people around here have Alpine nubian or saanan Nubians due to the hardiness the breeds crest when crossed. We also cross for temperature and winter is harsh on a lot of lines of Nubians. My friend who raises boers and boer crosses is getting out of them because they require more grain out of milk than her dairy girls in milk full force. But parasite resistance is the key. If that's what you want look for it in what fits you. My saanan nubian doe has needed to be wormed once compared to 3 times in a summer for the rest and 5 times for the youngest one I purchased via fecal results.

 

[NH homesteader]

24 lbs a day??? Wow thanks for reminding me why I don't have boers. They are beauties though!

In my experience, many Nigerians get fat off mediocre hay and browse. My mini alpines aren't huge eaters either. They are also incredibly parasite resistant, which I love!

Interesting @samssimonsays about herbal dewormers. I bought 2 Nigies last year who were previously on herbal dewormers, I don't use them. I've had parasite issues with one of them, and have had to deworm the other one twice. Also could be genetics.

 

[samssimonsays]

. I bought 2 Nigies last year who were previously on herbal dewormers, I don't use them. I've had parasite issues with one of them, and have had to deworm the other one twice. Also could be genetics.

I dont know if it was. The lady who bought both parents and his sister is having the same issues and the doe came from her originally and had zero issues. Her best guess is that because they were so reliant on it every day for so long that it has affected then this way. I know genetics plays a much larger roll than anything I just find it odd.