Update on flip-over crisis, doeling is fine now, thanks for the help!

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My little doeling was upside-down in the big rubber feed tub that the smaller goats like to curl up in. I went out about an hour ago, calling as I approached the barn, and the other three came to the gate but not the baby, but I could hear her calling. I peaked in the window and saw her belly and legs, perfectly still, and she was crying.

Her neck and head were completely to one side, and she was in a puddle of urine and poops, unable to move, and not even struggling. I thought her neck must be broken. I picked her up and got her out of the tub, setting her on her feet, and she stood shakily in a crouch, then she shook (imagine how I smell right now....) but mostly just her head and ears, poor little thing.

I put my hand under her chest to steady her, and half guided and half carried her to her stall so she could be safe while I called the vet. It took me some time to actually speak to a vet, and was told that she was probably just disoriented and to wait an hour and call back! Sheesh! This is why I left that practice years ago. Usually it was the desk help who would tell me such things. I returned to this practice after my horse was put down by my wonderful horse vet, who was useless (and outrageously expensive) in my last goat emergency. This practice is no better, but at least is about 1/4 the cost. And one of the many vets just got four baby goats, so there is hope. Of course, she was not in today.

Now the baby is mouthing some hay, she had a couple of pees and a poop, and the pee did not look bloody. I didn't think to catch some of the urine until she was done, but I got a good look at the stream, and to the eye, it was clear yellow and normal looking.

She is standing and moving about a tiny bit, not so shakey. I gently palpated her, she tolerated it well, seems to have a sore spot around her lumbar spine and iliac crest (not sure what it is called on a goat) but does not appear to be a bad break, if it is fractured at all.

She is not shaking. I am.

What do you experts think? Username? Helmstead? Rolling? Anyone I've forgotten (my brain is addled right now.)
 

Farmer Kitty

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It sounds, to me, like she had been there for a while and is exhausted. She probably struggled when she fell in but got to tired to fight anymore. I've had heifers get on their sides in the wrong spot and be to tired to fight anymore when we find them. Time to rest and extra TLC is what I would say is needed.

:hugs for you.
 

helmstead

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Goat cannot be upside down long as it impedes rumen function, much like a horse cannot be down long.

I would give a dose of C/D antitoxin asap along with some vit B complex injection and Probiotics, and baking soda balls.
 

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She seems better now, not 100%, but no longer looks like she needs to be......given the greatest kindness..... She is eating some leafy branches I put in her stall and I walked her around the yard and washed some of the urine off her. She was moving much better, still a bit slow and slightly unsteady. Me, too.

Boy, they can twist your insides into a tight little pretzel and squeeze all the moisture out of you through your eyes, can't they?
 

helmstead

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While I'm glad she's doing better I must recommend you not skip the C/D antitoxin at minimum...it would be a shame if she were to develop entero. It's so preventable.
 

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OK, now I'm confused.....why would I re-vaccinate her for being on her back for an unknown period of time? Actually, I saw her outside around 1 PM, and I found her at 3:30, so if she flipped or got bonked onto her back into the feed tub, it was 2.5 hours max....a looooooong time, but....vaccinate her?
:hu

eta: I do have some cd&t in the fridge from vaccinating everyone, half a bottle left over....is it ok to use?
 

helmstead

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It's not a vaccination, it's a treatment. C/D antitoxin is different from what you have which is C/D & T Toxiod. The antitoxin goes to work immediately, and has no residual.

Even vaccinated animals get entero...

Yeah I know, a bit confusing...LOL.
 

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Thanks for the clarification, but..... why would she need it, she didn't overeat, she was upside down, so probably underate, if anything. Still don't get it......just did a google search, and still am mystified.

Explain, please? I wonder if TSC is still open....do they carry it?
 

helmstead

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Entero is overproduction of Clostridial bacteria, which are always present but when they go into hyperdrive they will kill the goat. The misconception is that the ONLY cause is overeating (the name gets people). ANY gut slow down from constipation to stress to scours to general illness to being upside down where the motility changes can bring on this overproduction.

SO...you give the antitoxin whenever you FEEL the gut might have been comprimised, regardless of vaccination. Acidosis? Give it. Bloat? Give it. Floppy kid? Give it. Feed room break in? Give it. It will NOT harm if it wasn't needed, but will make the difference if it WAS needed.

Yes, TSC carries C/D antitoxin and all goat owners should have a bottle in their fridge because it always seems when you need it, you can't get it.
 

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I have never given the antitoxin (I vaccinate though) simply because it is not available here. However, I know a LOT of US folks use it all the time, and as Kate said it wont hurt.

Now, what you described is a very normal reaction to getting stuck upside down or on their side - we call it cast. Generally after about 5 or 6 hours the prognosis is grim for cast animals, even after you sit them up normally.

Confusion, belly upsets leading to bloat and/or scours (diarrhea) is common after being cast, you need to keep an eye on her. Your vet was absolutely right about just watching her and calling back a little later, so dont be too quick to judge :hugs perhaps they didnt explain it very well to you

Cast animals can be pretty scary, especially since after a few hours they dont move, and you are convinced they are dead. This morning I walked all the way across the neighbour's paddock convinced one of his ewes was dead (my ram is in there with his ewes mating them), well when I got there I realised she was cast, rolled her over, she stood up, had a piddle and poo and then took off across the paddock doing a funny running jumping wobbling gait!

Your girl should be just fine :hugs
 
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