What do you think of this?
- Thread starter Green Acres Farm
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Southern by choice
Herd Master
I was reading this article earlier today or yesterday... LOL I am still sick and sleep when I can.
I find it interesting.
I think a big issue is really the dosage and use of these products.
There is no real consistent protocol and I really think this is why there is so much resistance.
From all over the US, when you look at the vets they all prescribe different dosages.
Recently a friend asked if I though the dosage for Ivermectin Plus was correct... the vet said 0.1ml per 10 lbs. That is 1ml for 100lbs.
I suggested to check back with the vet, and perhaps the vet felt load was so high wanted to give a lower dose.
Ultimately it doesn't matter what I think. This is what the vet prescribed.
I know my vets do not prescribe that dosage.
Sane as many of the deworners. One vet says one thing another 3x that... the use of fenben and how it works is not explained and people give for 1 day and they wonder why it isn't working.
Then you have those that underdose because they have no idea of weight.
Another person, by permission of their vet started using a newer product. Because it is new and there is no dosage established it was given at a cattle rate... not working... the worst part is this is kinda the end of the line.
People rarely follow up on deworming, rarely look at reduction or refugia, are not doing EPG's and generally just throwing something at the goat/sheep.
I find it interesting.
I think a big issue is really the dosage and use of these products.
There is no real consistent protocol and I really think this is why there is so much resistance.
From all over the US, when you look at the vets they all prescribe different dosages.
Recently a friend asked if I though the dosage for Ivermectin Plus was correct... the vet said 0.1ml per 10 lbs. That is 1ml for 100lbs.
I suggested to check back with the vet, and perhaps the vet felt load was so high wanted to give a lower dose.
Ultimately it doesn't matter what I think. This is what the vet prescribed.
I know my vets do not prescribe that dosage.
Sane as many of the deworners. One vet says one thing another 3x that... the use of fenben and how it works is not explained and people give for 1 day and they wonder why it isn't working.
Then you have those that underdose because they have no idea of weight.
Another person, by permission of their vet started using a newer product. Because it is new and there is no dosage established it was given at a cattle rate... not working... the worst part is this is kinda the end of the line.
People rarely follow up on deworming, rarely look at reduction or refugia, are not doing EPG's and generally just throwing something at the goat/sheep.
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Green Acres Farm
True BYH Addict
Exactly what I was thinking. Manufacturer dose or your personal dose? Should the milk/meat witholding time REALLY be that? Pregnant does? Young kids? And multiple very strong chemicals at once... I have one vet who is telling me to use Cydectin and another who says Cydectin is dangerous. So many different opinions.
And then, if they do make a product available, people will underdose we might find resistance to all.
And then, if they do make a product available, people will underdose we might find resistance to all.
norseofcourse
Herd Master
A friend of mine gave me that link earlier today - really good, interesting information. I'd read a study awhile back about using ivermectin in combination with copper oxide wire particles, so it wasn't surprising that dewormer combinations are also extra effective, but it was good to see a pretty thorough article on it.
Some of my thoughts were:
We can't buy combination dewormers here, and there's no telling how long it may be before any manufacturers offer them. Even though the article says not to mix the dewormers before dosing, I can see people doing that.
People really need to understand refugia and why it's so important. You can't just 'dose everyone', you have to be selective. Unfortunately, 'dose everyone' is so easy to do (no FAMACHA, no fecals...). And it can seem a waste not to - "I spent $80 on a bottle of dewormer that can deworm two or three hundred sheep, and you're telling me I should only deworm three of my six sheep?" I wish manufacturers would make dewormers in smaller sized containers.
I see some other posts as I've been writing this - also good points. Too bad there are even more challenges deworming goats than there are sheep, with the need for so much more off-label, and differing opinions.
Some of my thoughts were:
We can't buy combination dewormers here, and there's no telling how long it may be before any manufacturers offer them. Even though the article says not to mix the dewormers before dosing, I can see people doing that.
People really need to understand refugia and why it's so important. You can't just 'dose everyone', you have to be selective. Unfortunately, 'dose everyone' is so easy to do (no FAMACHA, no fecals...). And it can seem a waste not to - "I spent $80 on a bottle of dewormer that can deworm two or three hundred sheep, and you're telling me I should only deworm three of my six sheep?" I wish manufacturers would make dewormers in smaller sized containers.
I see some other posts as I've been writing this - also good points. Too bad there are even more challenges deworming goats than there are sheep, with the need for so much more off-label, and differing opinions.
Fullhousefarm
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I've used Cydectin and Valbazen at the same time when a recently freshened goat was very anemic and another time on a goat with a very high load based on fecal. I had read either this article or a similar one previously. Both times it was very effective. With the recently freshened goat I was worried that she would go down quick when I noticed a slightly decreased appetite and then checked and she had gone very pale very quickly. She is also a smaller goat who puts everything into her milk AND had quads! I know from experience that Valbazen has worked well on our herd and Cydectin is also recommended in our area by several breeders and my vet.
I do think one would need to be knowledgeable about the different classes of wormers and what they are effective against since it wouldn't be a good idea to give two of the same class- like Ivermectin and Cydectin, as they are very similar.
I do think one would need to be knowledgeable about the different classes of wormers and what they are effective against since it wouldn't be a good idea to give two of the same class- like Ivermectin and Cydectin, as they are very similar.
