What kind of Guardian does your herd have?

[rockdoveranch]

Ya'll are making me want to go out and buy some donkeys, llamas and dogs!

I once looked into getting some miniature donkeys to use as LG, but was told they themselves need guardians.

 

[MonsterMalak]

Seems as if here we go again! Strong opinions from someone that is yet to obtain their first LGD. I have run LGD's for 24 years, with Turkish breeds for 7.5 years. I have communicated with dozens of Turks, as well as Turkish LGD breeders in 6 plus countries. So I have some basis for my statements and claims.

TRUE, the information on the internet and publications is sparse. Many things contribute to this. The average Turk does not speak, much less write English. Nor are they trying to communicate to the American public. The average turks opinion of American LGD people is of arrogance and willful ignorance. "Americans want to describe our breeds with little interest in our input". Turkih friend Zafer.

If you are saying that there is little to No information on the Net about them,,, How do you come to the conclusion that they are a CROSS??? What breeds do you suspect went into them? And if all the breeds in Turkey are used as LGD's, why would crossing (although they are NOT) vacate their ability to function as a LGD, any more than the Anatolian?

In the Northern Urfa Mountains, from where this LANDRACE Working breed originated, they are refered to as the GUREGH. The Name Boz is what the outsiders refer to them as,,, as it translates to (creamy white color). In web searches, you can look for Guregh, Kurdish Guregh, Kurdish Kangal, or Boz. In the Southern Urfa Mountains, the dogs are different, and refered to as the Yoruk. Yoruk are also a Landrace breed not recognized in the publications. Just because they do not exist in the USA does not void them from existence. With the many landrace regional variations in Turkey, it is likely that many more breeds will be seperated out of the Mix. If they do not go extinct prior to being saved, as the Guregh have been.

Until last year, at the Turkish Kangal shows, all the dogs were shown as Kangal. Kangal, Malakli, Boz, Akbash, Karabash, were all shown together. Does not mean they are all the same. They are only recently seperating them out, and the Boz Coban Kopegi is now a recognized breed. Just Fyi, there are other breeds of Coban Kopegi in turkey,,,, Kangal, Malakli, Akbash, Kars, Yoruk, Akyaka, Guregh, Karabash (Panter bloodline). Then there are several names for each kind. All of this lends itself to much confusion.

True they are used as fighting dogs,,,, but also as livestock guardians, family protection, police and security work, etc... All breeds in Turkey are used as fighting dogs. As all LGD breeds in Asia Minor. It is how they developed such effective LGD's. Was used as a tool by the people.

The Guregh is likely an ancient blend of Malakli and Kangal. They have been developed in the region for thousands of years. How they have changed,,,, who knows.
When and what blood was added,,,, who knows. But the fact that they remain the ONLY LGD in the whole region should speak for their abilities. I added 60+ pictures on my site of guregh in the mountains. You can see that they are the same dog,,, with a little more variance.

To say that because Akin calls them his New Race, implies that he crossbred to get them if a big leap. He is refering to the fact that He goes to the region of the Urfa Mountains, and finds working dogs that fit his IDEA of what he wants to reproduce. So yes, they are his bloodline.... But of a Landrace Working Breed.

They, as Kangals, Akbash, Kars, Yoruk are used to occasionally hunt. But because of their LOW PREY DRIVE, are used as Catch dogs. Otherwise, they do not chase and HUNT the prey. They are released when the prey is held up by the trackers,,,, at which time they feel as if they are protecting the owners from the Boars. So NO, they are not an aggressive breed with the propensity to attack children.

The pups I am getting from germany are coming from an individual with one pair of dogs, not a kennel.

Promote the breed on the forum,,,, yes. I am in LOVE with them! But have I ever mentioned SELL in any of my post on the Boz?

I truely wish to avoid any conflict, and only wanted to share my love for this breed. But then again, it is only a wish.

 

[rockdoveranch]

Monster,

I was only mirroring your words you posted on other websites, one of which is a hunting website, and commenting on the only breeder I can find. All I am asking is that you answer my questions, and now a few more that I have.

I am not saying I do not believe you, I just need more information than from you and your friend lgdnevada. I cannot imagine anyone considering purchasing any dog without thoroughly investigating all aspects of the dog.

Google can translate foreign websites. I am a Native Texan, 5 generations back, and I had family in Japan, and now Europe. I visit foreign websites all the time. Lots of people do.

Please provide us with the URLs that support what you are sharing with us. I want to know more than what you and lgdnevada are telling us.

Who is the person who sells you your dogs? How did your find him/her?

If the Turks are so reclusive, how did you find the breed you call BOZ? Are you Turkish? Have you visited Turkey to study their livestock guardian dogs?

If you can find a person in Turkey selling what you call BOZ, we should be able to also. What was you connection? If you can do it, we should be able to also.

Are the puppies you are selling born on your place, or are you having pups shipped to you from Turkey and/or Germany?

I have had Boxers for 60 years. I saw that you have one. Who is your breeder?

 

[MonsterMalak]

The Boxer is a Mixbreed of Boxer and American Bulldog.

The friends I met from Turkey do not have URLs. I email them, and Call them when able. I wouldnt imagine they would want me to publicize their names, due to the complicated nature of getting puppies out of Turkey. Nor would I imagine they would want to work with someone with such a sceptical nature. Sorry, just saying it like it is.

And I met them through another Kangal friend in Germany. I am not Turkish.

My Kangal pups I sold this spring were born on my place. I have not had any other puppies for sale.

With the cost incured with importing Boz puppies, and rarity of the breed, I could not imagine selling them.

 

[carolinagirl]

you are getting terribly defensive when all I asked was some questions. I just want a few links so I can learn more about this breed and instead you start ranting again. What's wrong with me asking for more information? If the breed really is shown in Turkey and is a recognized breed, then there should be information on the web. right? I just asked for a couple of links. I came to the conclusion that they MAY be a cross because I found a couple of references that said that Boz Kennels invented the breed, that it's a new breed. If it is a new breed, it had to be created from somewhere, right?

 

[carolinagirl]

The Boxer is a Mixbreed of Boxer and American Bulldog.

The friends I met from Turkey do not have URLs. I email them, and Call them when able. I wouldnt imagine they would want me to publicize their names, due to the complicated nature of getting puppies out of Turkey. Nor would I imagine they would want to work with someone with such a sceptical nature. Sorry, just saying it like it is.

And I met them through another Kangal friend in Germany. I am not Turkish.

My Kangal pups I sold this spring were born on my place. I have not had any other puppies for sale.

With the cost incured with importing Boz puppies, and rarity of the breed, I could not imagine selling them.

Just saying...if the breed is recognized, there should be referenced on the web you can point us to. Not asking for much, really! just a few links?

 

[MonsterMalak]

I will see what I can find from the Turkish authorities over the shows.

To say I am ranting, I am just defending the breed I love, and have embraced.

To question their breeding, purpose, functionability, saftey and history is slightly more than asking questions.

To say that you have based a conclusion on a post (of someones opinion),,, and now you are posting information without basis for the future person without knowledge to jump to their own unfounded conclusion. Do you see the irony with the spread of mis-information.

Not wanting conflict myself, have a good day!

 

[carolinagirl]

I will see what I can find from the Turkish authorities over the shows.

To say I am ranting, I am just defending the breed I love, and have embraced.

To question their breeding, purpose, functionability, saftey and history is slightly more than asking questions.

Not wanting conflict myself, have a good day!

but surely you have to understand that when I search the web and the only references I can find on this breed are from you, your breeder, and a few other sources that say your breeder invented this breed, the questions have to be asked? And when I do ask, I basically told I don't know a thing about LGDs (your quote "Strong opinions from someone that is yet to obtain their first LGD"). Just because I do not yet have my pup does not mean I can't research the breeds. I know quite a bit more about these breeds than you might think. I question this breed because I know nothing about it. That why I questioned. And instead of answering my questions and providing links, you get terribly defensive and yes, ranting.

 

[MonsterMalak]

Again,

There is a difference in asking questions and throwing out negative opinions.

When you disregard our explanations with more doubts, it seems pointless to try to appease you.

If I were applying for authentication through an organization you were the head of, I might could understand your level of sceptacism. But sadly, I find myself answering questions of doubt from someone that has no true interest in the breed.

Can you not understand they are a breed that only recently was brought out of a remote region, and is being introduced to the world. Sorry there is not information on the internet from a country that does not speak english. The Boz have won many shows, tractor pulls, competitions. But untill last year, were called Kangal due to the lack of seperation of the breeds. So does this mean they are Kangals... If it will satisfy you, call them what you may.

 

[carolinagirl]

but if some agency in Turkey has recently recognized them as a separate breed, that information should be on the web. I understand that remote Turkish shepherds don't have the web. But the showing agencies do, don't they? I am not trying to be confrontational, but you are asking us to accept your word. I don't k now you, yet you say that since I don't believe you, there is no appeasing me. That's pretty unfair, don't you think? So far I have seen NO proof of anything. And I have seen two separate sources that state Boz Kennels invented the breed. And no links from anyone to show any different. So you must understand my skepticism.