Why are Lamancha goats so popular?

[Carla D]

I have noticed that there are a whole big bunch of people who raise and love their Lamanchas. I’ve thought they were a bit ugly/odd from the pictures I’ve seen on the internet. There’s something about their almost nonexistent ears that doesn’t sit well with me.

I’ve seen a lot of beautiful pictures of members favorite Lamancha goat. There must be something really special about this breed. Besides being a mellow and gentle there has to be a reason they are so popular. I think I might even consider getting a couple minis because I’m reading about all of the love people have for them. Are they as big as Mini Nubians? If I’m going to have some goats that aren’t full/large sized I want either a finer structured medium goat or a small goat. 75 pounds or less if there are any breeds that size.

 

[Latestarter]

In my case, I love milk & wanted full sized/standard sized dairy goats for milk, that had high fat content for richness/creaminess, and would produce ~1 gallon a day. Based on what I read/heard/understood as breed generalities; Nubians can be very loud and obnoxious. Alpines can be very pushy and break out artists. Saanans can give up to 2 gallons of milk a day which is twice and more what I need/want/can deal with. In addition, they are all basically one color... white/beige. The northern European breeds like Oberhasli's & Toggenburgs have a (are reported by many to have a) very distinct flavor to the milk that many deem "strong" or "pungent" and not the best tasting (many describe it as "nasty"). Nigerian Dwarfs are just too small and produce too little per goat. In addition, their teets are so small, my old, tired, arthritic hands would play hell trying to milk them.

I chose the Lamancha because it was a breed developed here in America. It has a high butter fat content just below that of the highest butter fat breeds. Their milk is rich and creamy deliciousness. They are docile, even tempered, and quiet. They produce right at about a gallon of milk per day on average. They come in all color combinations imaginable. And they were available to me where I'm located. I had initially intended to (try to) get a high dairy quality Nigie buck, preferably polled and blue eyed, to produce highly salable Lamancha minis. All three traits are very desirable (blue eyed, polled, minis). Having a smaller animal that eats less, takes up less space, and still produces almost the same amount of milk as a standard sized goat would have also been attractive to buyers. Since my health aint what it once was, and the time to get to where I wanted to be would be multiple years and a lot of $$, I've scaled back many plans.

The size you describe you're looking for is right about where the Nigie falls. Max on them is generally around 80-90 pounds I believe. A mini could weight anywhere from ~70# to 150. The full sized are typically from ~100-250#+. obviously the largest weights are associated with the males. I don't own Nigies but plenty of folks here do and can provide better info than I on them.

 

[Carla D]

In my case, I love milk & wanted full sized/standard sized dairy goats for milk, that had high fat content for richness/creaminess, and would produce ~1 gallon a day. Based on what I read/heard/understood as breed generalities; Nubians can be very loud and obnoxious. Alpines can be very pushy and break out artists. Saanans can give up to 2 gallons of milk a day which is twice and more what I need/want/can deal with. In addition, they are all basically one color... white/beige. The northern European breeds like Oberhasli's & Toggenburgs have a (are reported by many to have a) very distinct flavor to the milk that many deem "strong" or "pungent" and not the best tasting (many describe it as "nasty"). Nigerian Dwarfs are just too small and produce too little per goat. In addition, their teets are so small, my old, tired, arthritic hands would play hell trying to milk them.

I chose the Lamancha because it was a breed developed here in America. It has a high butter fat content just below that of the highest butter fat breeds. Their milk is rich and creamy deliciousness. They are docile, even tempered, and quiet. They produce right at about a gallon of milk per day on average. They come in all color combinations imaginable. And they were available to me where I'm located. I had initially intended to (try to) get a high dairy quality Nigie buck, preferably polled and blue eyed, to produce highly salable Lamancha minis. All three traits are very desirable (blue eyed, polled, minis). Having a smaller animal that eats less, takes up less space, and still produces almost the same amount of milk as a standard sized goat would have also been attractive to buyers. Since my health aint what it once was, and the time to get to where I wanted to be would be multiple years and a lot of $$, I've scaled back many plans.

The size you describe you're looking for is right about where the Nigie falls. Max on them is generally around 80-90 pounds I believe. A mini could weight anywhere from ~70# to 150. The full sized are typically from ~100-250#+. obviously the largest weights are associated with the males. I don't own Nigies but plenty of folks here do and can provide better info than I on them.

This is really good information. The Lamanchas seem to have the even temperament, docile, and gentle is exactly what I’m looking for as our farm “pets”. I love the look of the Nubian but they are big goats, the mini Nubians are not at all what I think of when I think mini. The ND is about the size I’m looking for. If I could find a breed with all of those qualities would be ideal. It is starting to look like Lamancha minis might be what I’m looking for. While I don’t really have a desire to milk a goat on a daily basis or twice daily, if I had a goat or two that had really great tasting milk I would definitely be persuaded to have a doe or two. A buck would be needed. But I could always sell the babies or eat them. Who knows. I think I’m going to have to do some serious research on the breed. I do however have a question that’s been nagging at me. If minis are the result of a full-size purebred and a Nigerian dwarf how can they be considered a registered breed? They aren’t purebred, right? I’m confused.

 

[Latestarter]

You breed a Nigie buck (small) to a standard sized doe to produce minis. If you don't want milk, you can always get wethered minis as there's no market for them. The 1st generation produced from a pure nigie to pure standard is referred to as an f1; it is 50% of each. When you breed an f1 buck to an f1 doe the offspring are f2. You try to select the parents to produce the best representation of the pure standard sized animal.

So if trying for mini-manchas, the key element would be the ears. You would try to breed an f1 buck with "no ears" to an f1 doe with "no ears" (there are actually 2 types of ears on Lamanchas, both are acceptable on a female but only one is acceptable on a buck... long story). The f1 offspring may have the mancha "elf ears" or may have the nigie "airplane ears". When you breed followon generations, you're striving to produce an exact replica of the standard breed, but at smaller size, nearer the nigie. So you have many different breed traits that you have to consider when picking breeding pairs. f2 animals are considered 75% mini whatevers. The third gen is f3s and 87.5% mini. 4th gen is f4 and considered 93.75% mini, 5th gen f5 @ 96.875% and finally gen 6 is f6 @ 98.4375% mini. There are registry rules as to what is considered a "pure" mini which I'll not try to explain, but if everything is as it should be, @ f6, the offspring are considered "pure". f7 and beyond are 99% or higher. If you breed backwards to add in traits, let's say you breed an f2 buck to an f5 doe, then the offspring are automatically classed at the lower of the 2 so they would be f3, NOT f6. Sometimes breeding back to enhance specific traits is really necessary.

So, it takes many years and a lot of $$ to produce "registered, pure bred mini whatevers". At a minimum, you're looking at 6 generations, or 6 years. Normally, much longer as you may need to back breed. In addition, you'll need to wait for the offspring to grow to adults to see "what you've got" quality wise. The kids might look perfect but then grow to standard size. Since they are dairy, you need to see what kind of udder the doelings will grow, quality/quantity of milk they produce when they are bred, etc.You'll need to "import genetic diversity" from other mini herds as you don't want to continuously line breed from your own offspring. It's pretty complex.

 

[Carla D]

You breed a Nigie buck (small) to a standard sized doe to produce minis. If you don't want milk, you can always get wethered minis as there's no market for them. The 1st generation produced from a pure nigie to pure standard is referred to as an f1; it is 50% of each. When you breed an f1 buck to an f1 doe the offspring are f2. You try to select the parents to produce the best representation of the pure standard sized animal.

So if trying for mini-manchas, the key element would be the ears. You would try to breed an f1 buck with "no ears" to an f1 doe with "no ears" (there are actually 2 types of ears on Lamanchas, both are acceptable on a female but only one is acceptable on a buck... long story). The f1 offspring may have the mancha "elf ears" or may have the nigie "airplane ears". When you breed followon generations, you're striving to produce an exact replica of the standard breed, but at smaller size, nearer the nigie. So you have many different breed traits that you have to consider when picking breeding pairs. f2 animals are considered 75% mini whatevers. The third gen is f3s and 87.5% mini. 4th gen is f4 and considered 93.75% mini, 5th gen f5 @ 96.875% and finally gen 6 is f6 @ 98.4375% mini. There are registry rules as to what is considered a "pure" mini which I'll not try to explain, but if everything is as it should be, @ f6, the offspring are considered "pure". f7 and beyond are 99% or higher. If you breed backwards to add in traits, let's say you breed an f2 buck to an f5 doe, then the offspring are automatically classed at the lower of the 2 so they would be f3, NOT f6. Sometimes breeding back to enhance specific traits is really necessary.

So, it takes many years and a lot of $$ to produce "registered, pure bred mini whatevers". At a minimum, you're looking at 6 generations, or 6 years. Normally, much longer as you may need to back breed. In addition, you'll need to wait for the offspring to grow to adults to see "what you've got" quality wise. The kids might look perfect but then grow to standard size. Since they are dairy, you need to see what kind of udder the doelings will grow, quality/quantity of milk they produce when they are bred, etc.You'll need to "import genetic diversity" from other mini herds as you don't want to continuously line breed from your own offspring. It's pretty complex.

Holy Smokes! That is super complicated. Could a person buy a couple of pure and registered minis and breed them for their own purposes? I’m sure a mating pair is mucko denairo to buy. Is that an option if money was of no issue? Oddly enough I tried to find breeders of Lamanchas or minis Lamanchas and there doesn’t seem to be any listed in either wisc or Minnesota. Not that aren’t at the far side of the state. I’m not a person that feels a pure and registered any type of animal is a nessecity to have. I’m not breeding animals to sell for a huge profit, nor do I wish to have a huge number of any species. Mutts work pretty well for me and my husband. They are cost effective, can still reproduce even though the offspring will continue to be mutts, and it doesn’t seem to make any difference or much difference where eating or pets are concerned. These are things were not too concerned about. An animal doesn’t need to be pure in order to eat them, make them pets, or to sell as run of the mill critters. Maybe I’m odd or am missing something, I don’t know. The mini Lamanchas do seem like the very sort of animal that would work really well as pets, some milk, some meat, etc. I’d have to have them shipped here or drive them in from a long distance if they are the direction we take. It might be more suitable to buy $5-150 disbudded, castrated, nonregistered goats, I don’t know. I’m learning goats are pure fun and joy to be around no matter what breed they are.

 

[Southern by choice]

o if trying for mini-manchas, the key element would be the ears. You would try to breed an f1 buck with "no ears" to an f1 doe with "no ears" (there are actually 2 types of ears on Lamanchas, both are acceptable on a female but only one is acceptable on a buck... long story). The f1 offspring may have the mancha "elf ears" or may have the nigie "airplane ears". When you breed followon generations, you're striving to produce an exact replica of the standard breed, but at smaller size, nearer the nigie. So you have many different breed traits that you have to consider when picking breeding pairs. f2 animals are considered 75% mini whatevers. The third gen is f3s and 87.5% mini. 4th gen is f4 and considered 93.75% mini, 5th gen f5 @ 96.875% and finally gen 6 is f6 @ 98.4375% mini. There are registry rules as to what is considered a "pure" mini which I'll not try to explain, but if everything is as it should be, @ f6, the offspring are considered "pure". f7 and beyond are 99% or higher. I

As a breeder of miniature lamanchas this is not correct information.
This is not how the % are calculated nor is this how you get to a purebred mini.
% are always calculated by % of sire and dam. and the % must be under a certain percentage to qualify as an American or Purebred.
There are 3 ear types, not 2

Size of a mini lamancha doe at a 50/50 % at maturity should be 90-115 lbs. A buck at maturity same %- 90-140 lbs. Depending on %.
Maturity is 2-3 years

 

[OneFineAcre]

Why are Lamancha goats so popular?

Based on the number of animals registered each year with the American Dairy Goat Association, Nigerian Dwarfs are the most popular breed by a long shot
Nubians are second, Alpines third and LaManchas are 4th.
In 2017 there were around 17,000 Nigerians registered around 12,000 Nubians but only around 5000 LaManchas.
These are approximate, I was looking at a bar graph.

http://adgagenetics.org/RegistrationTrends.aspx

 

[Southern by choice]

Why are Lamancha goats so popular?

Based on the number of animals registered each year with the American Dairy Goat Association, Nigerian Dwarfs are the most popular breed by a long shot
Nubians are second, Alpines third and LaManchas are 4th.
In 2017 there were around 17,000 Nigerians registered around 12,000 Nubians but only around 5000 LaManchas.
These are approximate, I was looking at a bar graph.

http://adgagenetics.org/RegistrationTrends.aspx

True, however the Lamancha is gaining in popularity. More people are becoming aware of the breed. They will never out number Nubians or Alpines LOL. The Lamancha is a relatively young breed - out of standard goats.
The miniatures are a different registry and different all the way around. In that case there were more mini manchas registered last year than any other mini. Yet Mini Nubians still outnumber all other minis total.
I also think standards are just very much separate from Dwarfs.
The Nigerian numbers are astounding for many reasons... they are the number one pet goat due to their small size. Second they have extremely large litters thereby having significant numbers recorded.
Although Lamanchas are my favorite breed Nigerians are awesome goats. Personality wise I liken the Nigerians more to cats and Lamanchas to dogs.
I think for those wanting pet goats the Nigerian hands down is the ideal goat. Small size, economical, easy on the land, easy to house etc. There is an abundance of dwarves. There are always (like any breed) those they may not cut it in a breeding program but would make wonderful family goats, and pets.

 

[Latestarter]

I tried to simplify the explanation yet stay as close to precise/accurate/correct and understandable as possible...This is not the first time you have done this to me. I don't appreciate it.

This is not how the % are calculated nor is this how you get to a purebred mini.

"The 1st generation produced from a pure nigie to pure standard is referred to as an f1; it is 50% of each. (This is an absolute.) When you breed an f1 buck (would have to be 50/50 by definition) to an f1 doe (would again have to be 50/50 by definition) the offspring are f2." Is this incorrect?

"f2 animals are considered 75% mini whatevers." I said "whatevers" because it could be 75% nigie as easily as 75% lamancha or any percentage in between for either. Were this a masters or doctoral thesis, the statement would be incorrect as it could be anything from 50/50 to some other percentage in either breed direction based on the actual amount of each breed genes that were passed to the offspring. Without doing an actual DNA/genetic evaluation, you can't possibly know the real percentage of each breed in the f2 and beyond offspring. My statement was based on an ideal/perfect split being passed on for the mini breed you are trying for. This being the case, my mathematical percentages are correct for "registry purposes". In "real life" you breed for expected/unique breed characteristics of each breed and the registry standards for each breed and which breed you are trying to recreate in miniature form. Is this incorrect?

"The third gen is f3s and 87.5% mini. 4th gen is f4 and considered 93.75% mini, 5th gen f5 @ 96.875% and finally gen 6 is f6 @ 98.4375% mini." This is the goal and mathematically correct. The true/ideal percentages are what I posted. (The actual/real percentages can't be known without genetic testing) And once again, not explained at a masters or doctoral thesis level.

I also stated "Normally, much longer as you may need to back breed." The reason being to add back in a higher percentage of the standard breed genes if your F# minis are leaning more toward the nigie side than the standard breed you're trying to produce. Obviously this will skew the percentages from what I stated previously. Is this incorrect?

% are always calculated by % of sire and dam (exactly as I stated ). and the % must be under a certain percentage to qualify as an American or Purebred.

"There are registry rules as to what is considered a "pure" mini which I'll not try to explain, but if everything is as it should be, @ f6, the offspring are considered "pure". f7 and beyond are 99% or higher." Stating something needs to be "UNDER" a certain percentage of one is mathematically the same as stating that is must be OVER a percentage of the other. I clearly stated that there are registry rules and that I would not try to explain them. Once again, based on the ENTIRETY of my post vice taking a sentence or two out of context, Is this incorrect?

There are 3 ear types, not 2

On goats in general, there are more than 3 ear types/shapes. On Lamancha goats there are TWO ear types acceptable... "elf" or "gopher" https://articles.extension.org/pages/19274/goat-breeds-lamancha Only the gopher ear is acceptable on a buck for registration purposes Is this incorrect?

Size of a mini lamancha doe at a 50/50 % at maturity should be (<--Emphasis added by me) 90-115 lbs. A buck at maturity same %- 90-140 lbs. Depending on %. Maturity is 2-3 years

"A mini could weigh (<--Emphasis added by me) anywhere from ~70# to 150. The full sized are typically from ~100-250#+. obviously the largest weights are associated with the males." Is this incorrect? Thank you for providing some more narrowed down/specific mini weight details from a breeder's perspective.

Carla D, your last post is right on the money. You don't need expensive, registered goats for normal, everyday life. Mutts are just fine for any and all applications save one. Mutts can't be used to show, in breed specific shows. That being said, and before I get jumped on once again, that isn't entirely true either. "Mutts" CAN be "registered" as "experimental" or "grade" with some registries as long as the sire is/was a registered animal, or can be tracked back to one. Again, it's rather convoluted and I don't feel like going to in depth on that explanation either. If it's that important to you, you can research it for exact/specific details with the applicable registry.

 

[OneFineAcre]

True, however the Lamancha is gaining in popularity. More people are becoming aware of the breed. They will never out number Nubians or Alpines LOL. The Lamancha is a relatively young breed - out of standard goats.
The miniatures are a different registry and different all the way around. In that case there were more mini manchas registered last year than any other mini. Yet Mini Nubians still outnumber all other minis total.
I also think standards are just very much separate from Dwarfs.
The Nigerian numbers are astounding for many reasons... they are the number one pet goat due to their small size. Second they have extremely large litters thereby having significant numbers recorded.
Although Lamanchas are my favorite breed Nigerians are awesome goats. Personality wise I liken the Nigerians more to cats and Lamanchas to dogs.
I think for those wanting pet goats the Nigerian hands down is the ideal goat. Small size, economical, easy on the land, easy to house etc. There is an abundance of dwarves. There are always (like any breed) those they may not cut it in a breeding program but would make wonderful family goats, and pets.

It can be for whatever reason you want it to be
Nigerians are by far the most popular dairy goat
Lamanchas aren't even close to being 2nd most popular
My comment was in response to the question asked by OP