Worms or could it be something else?

[RareBreedFancier]

Hi all.

Margret my milking doe is passing poop close to dog logs, again.

She kidded on the 15th of November and was wormed a couple of days later as I noticed her poop looked odd and it seems like most people worm after kidding anyway. Fixed, like magic, back to goat pebbles.

I noticed now only a little over a month later she's doing it again. :/

In this time everyone else is producing goat pebbles, even the other doe who kidded and wasn't wormed. I was going to but her poop is fine and her FAMACHA is fine so she hasn't seemed to need it. I need to check Margrets FAMACHA, I forgot to do that today. Idealy I'd just send of a sample for a worm count but it's Christmas and the lab is closed. I could just worm her again but I'm wondering if it could be anything else? I know some goats are less resistant but a month? I don't want to have to worm monthly. :/

The wormer I'm using is a 'mectin' I forget exactly which one but it's specifically goat wormer. I bought it when they were pregnant as it was safe to use then. I could buy something in another family if that's a good idea but there is also the chance she's already bred back because DH turned the fence off twice and I found the buck with the girls two days running when I think she was in heat.

 

[20kidsonhill]

Yes, It is very very possible that it is worms in just a month, infact, I have seen a pattern with less resistant goats. They are way more likely to keep coming down with a worm load and getting run down looking.

I suggest reworming, then giving her red cell every day for a week, and/or copper bolusing her. Have you given her a bo-se shot lately?

I have had luck worming a goat like that weekly for a month and also increasing their minerals in their system to break them out of the cycle.

Also, don't over look a coccidiosis bloom after kidding,even in a little older animal. So when I have an animal like yours, I will also treat with sulfa-dimethoxine, if I haven't done the entire herd recently(past couple weeks) with corid.


as far as the kind of wormer, It may help to change types, but I don't know if I would blame the wormer for her showing signs of worms in just a month. I would blame the doe and her system and consider what you can do to help her be more resistant, so when you get the worm load down her system can fight it off the next time. If the wormer didn't work, then you wouldn't have seen her improve for a couple weeks. Remember there is always going to be some kind of a worm count, The animal has to beable to keep the count down with a strong immune system.


I am thinking you used ivermectin, a clear wormer and not moxidectin which is a much much stronger wormer. Safegaurd would be another option for you, since you think she could be pregnant, and you can find it labeled for goats.

If she wasn't pregnant I would suggest valbazene.

 

[SmallFarmGirl]

What do you mean dog logs ??? How big ???

 

[Roll farms]

I disagree with treating for worms if you don't *know* it's worms (unless the animal is very ill and it's a last ditch effort to save it when a vet isn't available).

It CREATES RESISTANCE to treat when they don't need it....so you can't really blame the goat if it gets wormy later, and then the dewormer doesn't work, now can we?

First off, if her eyelids are not pale, she probably does not have barberpole. That's about the only worm FAMACHA 'works' to help diagnose.
Also the only worm copper / red cell will 'help' take care of.

Usually, a stomach worm will cause diarrhea, not dog logs.

I don't fret over dog logs. Runny poop, yes.
Dog logs w/ no other symptoms like fever or off-feed? I don't even ponder it. I make a mental note, in case OTHER symptoms show up around the same time...but dog logs alone are a non-issue for me.

If her milk production is ok, her appetite is good, her behavior is normal, and there is no fever....I'd definitely hold off on any treatment until after the holiday, when you can have a fecal ran.

 

[jodief100]

I disagree with treating for worms if you don't *know* it's worms (unless the animal is very ill and it's a last ditch effort to save it when a vet isn't available).

It CREATES RESISTANCE to treat when they don't need it....so you can't really blame the goat if it gets wormy later, and then the dewormer doesn't work, now can we?

First off, if her eyelids are not pale, she probably does not have barberpole. That's about the only worm FAMACHA 'works' to help diagnose.
Also the only worm copper / red cell will 'help' take care of.

Usually, a stomach worm will cause diarrhea, not dog logs.

I don't fret over dog logs. Runny poop, yes.
Dog logs w/ no other symptoms like fever or off-feed? I don't even ponder it. I make a mental note, in case OTHER symptoms show up around the same time...but dog logs alone are a non-issue for me.

If her milk production is ok, her appetite is good, her behavior is normal, and there is no fever....I'd definitely hold off on any treatment until after the holiday, when you can have a fecal ran.

X2

Several of mine are starting to get dog logs because they aren't as active as usual. The mud and rain is keeping them in the barn. I just keep an eye on it and don't worry if I don't see anything else.

 

[sunny]

One of my does often gets soft stool after kidding. It's just simply because she's eating more than her body is used to. She is a heavy milker and really chows down to keep her calories up. There is also a lot of hormone ajustment going on that can cause this.
Since it's not an emergency I suggest waiting until after the holidays and get a fecal done.

 

[cmjust0]

Usually, a stomach worm will cause diarrhea, not dog logs.

Disagreed, respectfully.

Stomach worms, like barberpole, in my experience don't generally cause any diarrhea-like symptoms at all. I've seen many, many very pale, heavily barberpole-y goats making perfect little pellets, and that's because diarrhea is usually a *gut* thing -- not a *stomach* thing. When I see diarrhea and I'm thinking worms, I'm thinking *gut* worms.. Intestinal worms, in other words.. Not stomach worms..

We all have different experiences, though.


I'm with ya on not fretting dog logs, though, especially a goat on feed...which almost any milking goat is. She may be reaching her upper limit of how much feed she can get in a day without 'loosening up' a little bit. That's usually what I find it to be, anyhow.

 

[RareBreedFancier]

Oh I'm sorry! I typed out a reply Christmas Eve just before I went to bed but I must have hit preview not submit because it's not here.

Thank you all for the advice, there sure are some different opinions.

I haven't wormed her yet, decided I'll send a sample off to see what eggs are in there. If she's wormy after just a month I'd like to know what I'm dealing with.

The active ingredient in the wormer I have is Abamectin. Guessing that is basically Ivermectin. I'd been thinking if she came in heat I'd worm her with something else but she's showing no signs of it and tomorrow is 21 days since the buck fence hopped so I'm guessing she's bred but I have a few days to be sure.

She is getting 6 cups of feed, split between morning and night. She has free choice hay and grazing/browse all day, I lock the does and kids up at night as I don't have a livestock guardian yet. I'm not sure how much milk she's producing but her buckling is growing like a weed, he's only 6wo and he's only a few inches shorter than her at the shoulder. He's going to be BIG! From the look of her udder she's producing a lot of milk, I'd only been milking 1 to 1 1/2 cups off her a day, that's all I could get in the morning as he's with her full time. I've stopped milking her though as I felt if she was pregnant again she needs to look after her babies and I don't need to make it harder for her.

I hadn't thought about high amounts of feed or being less active as possible causes, good to know. The heat here is keeping them camped in the shade a good part of the day now so I'm feeding more hay and grain to compensate.