Yikes.

[cmjust0]

What I really wish is that humans would LEAVE THEM ALONE when they 'find' them....usually mama's close by, if they'd walk on by they'd be fine...but no, they gotta drag them 15 miles away to some DNR station and 'turn them in' as 'abandoned'....grrrr.

Agreed x10. People don't realize, but mama leaves them in the weeds while she goes out to refill the tank, and then she comes back.. If those of us who raise goats have ever had occasion to let mama raise on on pasture practically from birth, the same thing happens...baby will lay down somewhere, and mama will roam around eating like crazy -- but if she's a good mama, she rarely goes very far.

People probably also don't realize that if you can actualy catch one, it's probably no more than a few days old. By, what...probably a week or so, they're not snaggable anymore.

The only way I'd take one in is if I knew mama was dead...like, a roadkill + screaming/hovering baby situation. Or if I managed to screw up and kill a doe that had a new baby at her side.. Something like that..

A buddy of mine had some cell phone pictures of a HUGE buck his friend had raised on a bottle and was "keeping" as a pet (which, of course, was more or less up to the buck...they're mighty hard to fence in. ). It was about an 8pt or so, with an orange collar on...nose right up on the phone like "Hey, what's that? Is that food?"

 

[ksalvagno]

You don't worry about meningeal worm at all with your goats?

I have to admit I just look at deer as walking death for my alpacas. Even though I have been involved in rescue for many, many years and have nursed animals back to health as well as foster, I just couldn't have a deer on this property, even if it was a baby. I know the deer walk by my property but they don't stop since there is nowhere for them to be.

 

[Roll farms]

The dogs generally keep the deer away from the pastures by barking at them.
They tolerate, but just barely, my foundlings....who are often dewormed...so I don't worry about them w/ meningeal.

I lost a llama to it (M. worms) years ago, it was HORRIBLE. We tried treating him, and I was even crazy enough to ponder making him a harness so he could stand and not get 'bedsores' and such....but finally they (dh and vet) talked me into putting him down. He was such a noble, strong guy and he didn't deserve life in a harness so that *I* would feel better.

See, my vet at the time was a horse vet...she had told me to rotate dewormers w/ the llamas just like the horses....and do it every 3 mos...so I did...not realizing that meningeal worms even EXISTED...
And this was before I got the dogs b/c...Who needed guard dogs, I had guard llamas...and deer around the pasture never bothered me.

We tried DMSO on his shaved back, and then injecting ivermectin into his spine to kill the larvae, etc....he went down and never could get back up and Frosty (Oak Lane Frosty Mahogany, sired by a gorgeous Peruvian stud...) was lost to me. I STILL mourn that boy.

Also, goats / sheep aren't as susceptible to them as camelids are, from everything I've read. In fact, other than on websites, I can't say I've heard of a goat w/ it...but if I still had my llamas or alpacas, you can bet your bippy that I'd be most vigilant about it.

Why is it we always have to learn things the hard, terrible, awful way???

 

[ksalvagno]

They have since found that Safeguard kills the larvae. You still give them an injection of Ivomec but you also give them 1cc per 7 lbs of Safeguard for 7 days.

M. Worm is horrible. A couple years ago, I took care of 2 females that got M worm. Luckily it was caught early and they got the high dose of Safeguard in them pretty quickly. The one almost completely recovered but the other one has some back end issues but can still get around. But she was in worse shape than the other one to begin with.

Several years ago a friend of mine lost an alpaca to M worm. That was when we all found out about Safeguard and treating the alpaca quickly. Ever since then, if I see an alpaca limping on one of its back legs and I don't know why they are doing that, they get the safeguard treatment. So far I haven't had it but it is always a worry. My feeling is the worst I have done is wasted some wormer and they got a thorough worming. Luckily I have only done that to a couple of alpacas.

Dr David Anderson did a study on M worm years ago and found that the slugs (which can eat the M worm) can travel pretty far. So even if deer don't come in or near your pasture, M worm can still get in with the slugs. Stinks! That is where I'm hoping my chickens will eat up those stupid slugs. I know guinea fowl are the best for that stuff but I just can't bring myself to get some of them. I have not heard anything good about them except that they are great at eating bugs and slugs.

 

[aggieterpkatie]

I know guinea fowl are the best for that stuff but I just can't bring myself to get some of them. I have not heard anything good about them except that they are great at eating bugs and slugs.

I love my guineas!!! They can be a tad loud at times, but they're not always loud, only when they're doing their "alarm" call. They're really just clowns with feathers!! They're always doing goofy things! You should try a few. The only thing you have to be careful of is making sure to keep them penned up for a few weeks so they don't run away right when you bring them home. I learned that the hard way, but luckily mine came back....three weeks later!

 

[Roll farms]

We have guineas coming out our ears....
I honestly don't hear them anymore. You become immune.

 

[glenolam]

I will say that our guineas are doing an awesome job of controlling ticks and bugs - we haven't yet treated our dogs/cats with any flea or tick prevention and we've only pulled 4 ticks off the dogs. Our guineas are starting to walk further into the woods, which is most likely where our dogs got the ticks from, so we're hoping it gets better from here on out. Our neighbor who has massively expensive bird dogs has even complimented that his dogs haven't had ANY ticks, and he thinks it's because our guineas are walking on to his property, too.

On the other hand, though, ours are stupid. If they don't stick together, one always gets "lost" on the other side of the field fence, and instead of walking through (because they can fit) or jumping over, they just pace back and forth calling to their friends.....

 

[jodief100]

So how many gunieas would I need for 30 acres? Do you have to feed them anything else or do they get enough free ranging? Will my LGD's eat them like they did a chicken last week? Or I think they did, one is missing and there were feathers in Snowy's hidey hole in the barn. She is terrified of thunder storms so she has dug a cave under the hay rack and crawls in it to hide from them.

My doe with bottle jaw is still hanging in there. She is more active and getting harder to catch but her jaw is still full of fliud and eyes also still white though now a very faint touch of pink. Should I keep giving her the red cell every day and B complex every other until it goes away? She had 3 days of Safeguard and two doses of Ivermectin 5 days apart.

 

[glenolam]

So how many gunieas would I need for 30 acres?

We have 8 guineas for 28 acres - they're just over a year old and now are going further into the woods because they feel more comfortable. They usually come home everynight around dusk, except for the times one or two get "stuck" behind the cow fence.

Do you have to feed them anything else or do they get enough free ranging?

We still feed ours chicken pellets, but that's because they live with the chickens and ducks (their choice, too, even though we built the guineas a really nice house of their own) and everyone gets fed in the evenings when they come home.

Will my LGD's eat them like they did a chicken last week?

I don't have a LGD so can't help you there....but my two "regular" dogs now leave the birds alone. When the birds are chicks/keets, the dogs only wish they could have one to "play" with, but we make sure that doesn't happen.

My doe with bottle jaw is still hanging in there. She is more active and getting harder to catch but her jaw is still full of fliud and eyes also still white though now a very faint touch of pink. Should I keep giving her the red cell every day and B complex every other until it goes away? She had 3 days of Safeguard and two doses of Ivermectin 5 days apart.

I would think you should continue with the B complex and red cell. Probios would be good to add as well.

 

[cmjust0]

My doe with bottle jaw is still hanging in there. She is more active and getting harder to catch but her jaw is still full of fliud and eyes also still white though now a very faint touch of pink. Should I keep giving her the red cell every day and B complex every other until it goes away? She had 3 days of Safeguard and two doses of Ivermectin 5 days apart.

I'd keep up the Red Cell, personally. That's not to say it's the right thing to do...but it's what I'd do. Reason being, I'd be more concerned about the edema than the possibility of O/Ding her on Red Cell (or, rather, the components of Red Cell like copper, selenium, etc)..

I'd also hit her with a stronger dewormer pretty soon.. Cydectin, probably....or Levasole, if you can find it. You've probably taken care of quite a few worms at this point, but there's widespread resistance to ivermectin and benzamidazole-class dewormers in barberpole...which is to say, she still has worms. Not as many, of course, but she still has them.

If it were me, I'd giver her a few days to plug the holes she's got weeping in her abomasum right now after the deworming she's already gotten, and then use the stronger dewormer.

That's me, though.