Hi, we have a large sheep and goat herd of about 400 which fluctuates as they are feeders not breeding stock. Right now we also have Dora (10 months Komondor/Australian Shepherd) Bo (10 months lab/Bassett/Golden mix) and Nala (3 year old Pyrenees). The younger dogs have been with the herd since they were 5 months and Dora was raised with a ewe/lamb herd. No problems to really report until today. Nala joined the herd a few weeks ago and has been great she came from a nanny/kid farm where she excelled at her job. The family sold their herd and rehomed her with us. My family is fairly new to LGDs besides my own research and knowing other families with them. Saying that my husband went to where our herd is a few miles away from our house and found 4 dead lambs 1 injured. These lambs weigh 50 to 65 pounds. The injured one had his side ripped open same with 3 of the other dead. The last looked to have died of other issues. Bo was next to one of the dead, but was not interested he checked on the injured lamb and moved on. Nala was in the cattle pasture minding her own business. Dora my husband said acted very guilty and avoided the bodies and injured lamb. She has been caught chewing ears and cornering lambs before. Does anyone have any ideas how to stop this behavior? She is young and possibly playing too hard (grabbing sides and such). All the dogs get along great and have kept coyotes away since they have joined us.
Young female LGD injuring/killing large lambs help!
- Thread starter Esanders
- Start date
rachels.haven
Herd Master
Sounds like Dora might be a barnyard dog and not an LGD, but someone more experienced than me should chime in. I'm not sure herding dogs in the background mix of an LGD are a good idea. Anything with prey drive is risky when crossing it in.
- Thread starter
- #3
Thank you for replying! I wasn't sure on the mix myself. The family we got her from use 2 female komondors and 1 male komondor and 1 male Aussie. They said that the Aussie is her father, I am not totally convinced as she is all white and has no Aussie looks or traits. I will say she stays with the herd (laying in the middle of them) and only leaves them to greet us or to eat.
secuono
Herd Master
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2010
- Messages
- 9,516
- Reaction score
- 14,404
- Points
- 623
- Location
- Virginia is for Pasture Farmers!
Dora and Bo both need to be sold to pet homes.
Mixing LGD with some random not LGD breed does not make them LGD.
Reading a reply, I believe that you can do parentage testing on dogs. You'll need blood from the Kom and the aussie males and blood from Dora. It will tell you who the dad is. If it's the aussie, sell her. If it's the Kom, then you could keep her, but need to separate her from babies and young stock, then start training her.
Mixing LGD with some random not LGD breed does not make them LGD.
Reading a reply, I believe that you can do parentage testing on dogs. You'll need blood from the Kom and the aussie males and blood from Dora. It will tell you who the dad is. If it's the aussie, sell her. If it's the Kom, then you could keep her, but need to separate her from babies and young stock, then start training her.
farmerjan
Herd Master
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2016
- Messages
- 12,303
- Reaction score
- 49,763
- Points
- 758
- Location
- Shenandoah Valley Virginia
Aussies and border collies have a very high drive to herd and they often cross the line from working to killing if not constantly under supervision.
There might be some dynamics with adding a new dog. Whether she is experienced or not, it may have thrown off the relationship between the other 2... and maybe the younger one is becoming more aggressive. I would try locking up/penning one at a time and see if you can find the aggressor. Sometimes taking an established dog from her "home" can cause them to change their behavior; but I would think it is more likely the young dog. We will not let our aussies loose with the sheep unless we are out there as they will start to herd them and then get too aggressive towards them if no one is there to control their actions. Most labs and crosses are not overly aggressive to want to chase or kill livestock.... but again you are talking a young dog and they will follow others. We had a pack of "neighborhood" dogs that got in and killed several pregnant ewes... one was one of the sweetest golden retrievers, that got caught up in the pack and running.... the owners paid for the dead sheep and we have never seen the dog loose again... I honestly don't think it killed any but it was in the group. Once they get a taste of blood, there is a slim chance you will stop it.
I wish you the best of luck.
There might be some dynamics with adding a new dog. Whether she is experienced or not, it may have thrown off the relationship between the other 2... and maybe the younger one is becoming more aggressive. I would try locking up/penning one at a time and see if you can find the aggressor. Sometimes taking an established dog from her "home" can cause them to change their behavior; but I would think it is more likely the young dog. We will not let our aussies loose with the sheep unless we are out there as they will start to herd them and then get too aggressive towards them if no one is there to control their actions. Most labs and crosses are not overly aggressive to want to chase or kill livestock.... but again you are talking a young dog and they will follow others. We had a pack of "neighborhood" dogs that got in and killed several pregnant ewes... one was one of the sweetest golden retrievers, that got caught up in the pack and running.... the owners paid for the dead sheep and we have never seen the dog loose again... I honestly don't think it killed any but it was in the group. Once they get a taste of blood, there is a slim chance you will stop it.
I wish you the best of luck.
rachels.haven
Herd Master
You may just be able to run a cheek swab through embark for breed percentage. Less complicated. Probably less accurate, but accurate enough.
secuono
Herd Master
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2010
- Messages
- 9,516
- Reaction score
- 14,404
- Points
- 623
- Location
- Virginia is for Pasture Farmers!
They do that? Neat!
rachels.haven
Herd Master
I think so, but they may also tell you about genetic issues that may crop up in the future. Sometimes, for established pets, you just don't want to know.
- Thread starter
- #9
We have chained up Dora and have had no more issues. The ones killed were in a new group the established herd was never touched. No new injuries have occurred since she was chained. I believe it is possibility of her not claiming the new ones and only knowing the older part of the herd/pen was "hers". She also had already been caught chewing on ears of smaller/weaker animals which we had been working to correct. I understand the concern with Bo but he has always been super gentle with each member, checking in (licking noses,laying with sick ones etc) so he will not be rehomed no disrespect to anybody. We will introduce Dora to the new stock each time and see how it goes. Thank you all for the responses. We may swab her for DNA and see if she is full or half. If she does stay she will be getting fixed as she is intact at this time.
farmerjan
Herd Master
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2016
- Messages
- 12,303
- Reaction score
- 49,763
- Points
- 758
- Location
- Shenandoah Valley Virginia
Hope things can be worked out. Bringing in a new group and then bringing in a new dog did change the dynamics of the 2 you had originally... and you could be right that she just did not accept the new sheep as part of the flock. I am not so concerned about Bo as he does not have the background to be overly aggressive. I think you hit it right with Dora being the problem. I hope that you can work with her... and you may find that she will only work with one group of sheep and will not be able to be moved or mixed in with others. Fixing may help to calm the hormones too. You do not want to cause the older experienced dog to change her attitude or abilities with the animals since that is what she is well experienced at doing. Best of luck.
