Bees are tough to raise

[soarwitheagles]

The hives are both captured swarms and not very strong. One was doing well until the robbing started, the other had to be given a queen late in the summer so not much going on at all. I had planned on feeding them heavily all winter. I saw no queens today in either hive, the one being robbed may have been killed. I have thought about combining them. The honey wouldn't hurt them at all but if there are bees on the frames as I put them in is that starting trouble?

When you treat for mites with the OA vapor do you do it more than once a year? Does it have to be done during a period of no brood like the dribble?

babs,

I was told I could strengthen my hives by adding sugar syrup and pollen substitute during the first year and also during subsequent dearths. Bees need the sugar for food, and they need the pollen sub to feed the larvae. When I added these two ingredients, the queen began to lay 1,000-2,000 new eggs per day. So that is how they became incredibly strong.

I never had a problem with robbing until this year. The robbing began after I shook off bees from one hive into another hive. It was my mistake. I had to place robber screens on some of the hives after that.

I also noticed that when the hives are very strong, they can fight off and even kill yellow jackets.

To answer your question regarding the OA vapor...

I treat only when I see an increase in mites. I use sticky bottom boards that I designed and made to monitor the mite activity. I just began the first OA vapor treatments of the year last week because I saw a substantial increase of mite activity. The recommended cycle for treatment is 3 times at 5 day intervals. But I like to treat 4-5 times at 5 day intervals just to be certain I killed 99% of them!

I am so sorry to hear you lost some hives. I know the pain of that type of loss [we lost our first hive to ants]. I felt like given up after losing our first hive. But after lots more reading, study, and asking questions, I thought I would try again. Now we went from 1 hive to 15 hives, so the patience finally paid off.

After carefully analyzing how much time and money we put into the bee keeping, we have decided to downsize. Next spring we hope to double our hives by either splits or the Nucot method. That will put us up to 30 hives. Then we hope to sell 25 of the 30 hives to recoup our costs and make a little money too. Finally, we will probably stay around 5 hives for our pollination needs here.

We hope to double our 5 hives each year in the spring and then sell 5 each year to pay for the costs of the sugar and pollen sub.

Hope this helps!

 

[babsbag]

The 3 hives I have left look a little more peaceful today so hoping that that is a good sign. I read last night that some people actually open feed their bees and that it will help draw the robbers away from the hives. But then I thought that is was open feeding that started this mess to begin with so I'm not sure. It is supposed to rain tomorrow night for a couple of days so maybe that will make it all right again.

I was going to do the OA dribble but I can't open the hives right now so thinking I could do the vapor from the front but if I have to have the bottom entrance wide open like I would for some of the other treatments that makes it tough as I don't have enough robbing screens made yet. I guess next year I will add feeding pollen to the list. I know I can't feed sugar syrup when supers are on so I don't usually feed until fall.

Still waiting to hear from the mosquito place but the bait traps are out and the yellow jackets have discovered them already, took them about 3 minutes. I noticed that they are taking the food so that is good. I used cat food and put in my blender with the fipronil then put it in a red Dixie cup. I took q-tips soaked with the attractant and taped them to the side of cup and hung it in a tree in the shade.

 

[soarwitheagles]

Babs,

Our first year of beekeeping we tried the "open" feeding. I saw it on youtube where you simply fill a 5 gallon bucket with sugar syrup and place it about 20 feet from your hive. This advice and video sounded so nice and innocent! So I filled a 5 gallon bucket with sugar syrup and placed it a few feet from our one and only hive early in the morning...

After one hour, there were lots of bees drinking away.
After two hours, we started to be concerned because there were thousands of bees.
After three hours, we began to feel absolutely terrified. Now there were tens of thousands of bees. They made a roar so loud you could hear them from 100's of feet away. And they were so angry. If you got within 50-75 feet of the bucket, you got stung. It was the very first time I ever saw so many angry bees fighting. It was like a non-stop massive 10x swarm that lasted until evening, then started right back up the next morning. It went on for 2-3 days, and it was frightening.

We could not even walk near that part of our ranch. It is like every bee within 5 miles got the word, "free sugar syrup party" and every bee brother, sister, nephew, aunt, uncle, great grandmother, etc. bee showed up for the party [or should I say showed up for the war]?

Needless to say, we never tried that again. I am never throwing a bee sugar syrup party ever again! It took nearly an entire week for things to go back to normal.

Now, I am super careful how I feed. We ONLY feed with sealed top feeders. No entrance feeders, no side feeders, etc. And even then, we must be careful to monitor our nucs for robbers during the dearth...

 

[Baymule]

@Support @Sumi this should be a thread of the week.

 

[Happy Chooks]

I bought the full suit and other than getting stung when I was stupidly working at night I have been safe. I am not allergic but still not fun. I used to get them under the jacket all of the time and finally just said "enough". Hotter than heck in that suit but I am much more relaxed. I am thinking of making pockets inside that hold ice packs.

@Happy Chooks What do you do to the hives when you treat for mites.? I was going to do the OA dribble this week but can't open the hives so if the robbers don't kill them the mites will.

I used Apiguard, I've been really happy with it. You place the tray directly on top of the frames, and you need a spacer so they can get into the tray. I use an empty super box, then put the inner cover on top of that, then the outer cover. So there is a big space between the top of the frames and the inner cover. They groom in it, and carry it throughout the hive, killing the mites. Thymol is heavier than air, so you have to have the bottom board closed off. 2 weeks from start of treatment, you add another one for 2 weeks. After 4 weeks, you are done.

Interestingly, my 2nd hive seems to be much more hygenic than my first. My original hive was dropping hundreds and hundreds of mites. My 2nd hive, barely any. My 2nd hive is a bit more testy than the first, I don't know if that means anything or not. It will be interesting to compare honey production between the two next year.

 

[babsbag]

Yes, I think I will skip the open feeding; doesn't sound like a pleasant experience.

@Happy Chooks, do you have to open the entrance? I have mine shut almost entirely due to the robbing.

Last night I thought I was going to use the Oxalic Acid vapor for mites but I read that it isn't all that uncommon to catch a hive on fire when you stick that hot heating rod/pad into the hive. (It looks like this).

They suggest that you use slatted bottom boards if you use this method so no burr comb is hanging off of the bottom of frames that can ignite. I only have a rack on one hive so this method is out for me. With my luck I would burn down the hive and my house...CA is so dry this time I year that I won't risk it, and there is something about a fireman's wife starting a fire that is just wrong. Plus the apparatus isn't cheap so maybe next year. I have the apiguard and I have the oxalic dribble but this robbing frenzy has made me pause to figure out which one to use.

One hive seems to be ignored...yeah. One hive is still under attack but seems to be holding on. My biggest hive is quiet, no coming and going but I can hear bees in the box. I locked them in entirely. We are supposed to be getting a huge storm this weekend, 16" of rain and 45 MPH winds so that ought to stop anything out there, maybe. I want so much to open that big hive and see what is going on. They had an entire deep of honey and if the bees have been killed I want that honey; I will freeze the frames of honey for next years bees as I will try this again. I am stubborn that way. But opening the hive will have to wait until next week after the storm.

I saw the wasps actively taking the bait yesterday but none on it today. There are still some on the hives

 

[Happy Chooks]

Fireman can start the best fires! But I don't think I'd risk it with our grasses so dry right now. I don't even like lighting my smoker when it's dry. (most of the summer) I'm super careful where I set it, and make sure I dump any leftover contents in a metal bucket with water in it.

I have my entrance reducers on, but on the wider opening. (not the 1 bee width opening) It's 3 or so inches long? I keep them on all year, to keep the entrance easy to defend for them. I started keeping them on year round last year when I was having yellow jacket issues. I haven't had any issues with doing the treatment with the openings reduced.

I don't open feed either. I've read that it can be a disaster. I don't even open feed as clean up from honey extraction - I use a hose. I do similar to what soarwitheagles does, but I feed on top of the inner cover with an empty super body around it. Then the outer cover above. I haven't had any robbing issues doing this. My first couple of years, I used an entrance feeder, until I read that they can set off robbing. So I moved to my current system of feeding.

 

[babsbag]

I am very careful with the smoker too, I have a little trash can that I keep it in and I always set it someplace that isn't dry grass or weeds. I also watch for sparks from it when I first light it.

I will definitely have robbing screens on all my hives next year. Pretty sure my big hive is gone too. But I won't know for sure until after this storm. There were hundreds of bees in there on Sunday, I actually thought they were the robbers but I guess not. When their neighbor's hive died they were next and today there were very few bees coming and going and a few wasps. I keep getting a pile of dead bees behind the robbing screen, don't know if they are mine or the marauders or some of each. Just makes me sad. If there are any bees left and no queen I am going to buy one, I can get one year round in Orlands, about an hour away. Our winters are usually so mild that maybe a small hive will survive with enough food. I feel like I have to try. Or maybe combine all three hives. IDK.

If I have any hives to treat next week I will probably use the Apiguard as I think I can get it in the hive more quickly than the dribble. Less time open the happier I will be. The robbing screen lets me keep the entrance open, it is just on the other side of the screen so the two hives that have the screens should be ok to treat. I will have to read about required temperatures before I decide for sure.

 

[babsbag]

I lost my big hive. Opened it up today and it is full of dead bees. There is a deep full of honey, and a deep full of pollen and a deep that should have had brood but doesn't, but lots and lots of dead bees. And some dead yellow jackets. The honey and pollen will go into the freezer for next year. One other hive is still be harassed and one is still just fine. I will open them up when this storm is truly gone, next week.

 

[NH homesteader]

So sorry