Just starting to work it out.... first cow questions

canesisters

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Hi All!

I've been lurking on here a while but since I lost my last (ancient) horse a year ago, I didn't have much to add to the heard discussions.
Conversations with some friends over the weekend have got me thinking about getting some tenants in my empty barn again.
I know NOTHING about cows... but several friends are interested in starting a coop. We're just trying to gather info right now. With the possibility of getting a calf or heifer in the spring.

SO.....

Where to start?

In VA it's against the law to sell raw milk, but you can consume milk from your own cow - or from a cow that you own a share in.

I have a large barn. 30x48. There is power and water. There are 4 10x12 stalls and 2 open storage areas (also 10x12) plus a small room (feed/tack) that has a fridge. There is about 5 acres of electric-wire fenced pasture - able to be divided into 3 separate areas for rotation grazing. It's not the perfect pasture, kinda weedy, but getting better each year as we keep it mowed and overseed it.

I've had horses all my life so being around a large animal is not a problem and 'barn chores' are actually something that I've been missing for a while.

OK all you dairy experts...

What's my next step for info gathering???

I'm looking at Jersey or mini Jersey - just because I really like the look of them and because I'm just as interested in the butter/cheese aspect as the milk. I've been told that Jerseys have a higher cream content.

How do I figure out the annual cost so that it can be split up among the 'share holders'?
What is this 'horse mama' likely to be shocked about when I find it out about cows?
Are there any special 'cow' medical things that I would not be used to from years with horses? Worming, vaccs, teeth, hooves, etc?

Also... please, let’s keep this kind. I'm not looking to start any arguments. Everyone has their own opinions of what is 'the best'. I'm just looking for general info (there will be TONS of specific questions once we get going, I'm sure).

Thanks SO much,
Debbie
 

WildRoseBeef

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Your best bet is to start yourself off with a cull dairy cow, especially if you're wanting milk right away or within a year. If you get a bottle calf you have a good couple of years before you start getting milk out of her, and even then you have to train the heifer to get used to being milked prior to the milking period and when she drops her first calf. Also, with bottle calves, there's a higher chance of them getting ill or loosing them from illnesses like scours (severe diarrhea), respiratory disease, coccidia, etc.

Cost will depend on the prices in your area, and I don't want to say how much a cull cow will go for, but I'm thinking you could be paying anywhere from $900 to $1400, but that's just my guessing. Some of the more dairy folks can bring in a more realistic price-range for you.

Cows are a bit different from horses, they tend to use their head a lot more than their feet or teeth when it comes down to displays or assertion of dominance. But like with the horses, you still need to act as the boss, be confident, etc.

As far as other behaviours are concerned, don't panic if you see your cow laying down more often than you've seen a horse laying down. Cows like to chew cud and rest for a good half-hour to an hour before they're up and eating again. They eat with their tongues because they have no upper front teeth and stiffer lips than horses or sheep do. They love to taste-test things too, and have quite the long, raspy tongues!

The biggest thing you need to remember about cows is that they are ruminants, meaning they have more than one forestomach (some like to say they have "four stomachs") meant for digesting coarse plant matter, and they chew cud. So what you would feed a horse is not what you would feed a cow, as far as nutrient content is concerned. And the exact opposite of feed quality is applicable to cows: for instance, the lower the quality the feed, the less a cow will eat (but the more a horse will eat). For a dairy cow, they need higher quality feed more often than horses do, and can't subsist on low quality, high-fibre feed. Good, dairy-quality hay is high in protein and calcium, and moderate in energy. This means good, green alfalfa- or legume-mix hay ad libitum, not strictly grass hay like with horses. A legume mix in the pasture is also good for the cow (or cows) as well as the pasture.

De-worm annually, and don't worry about the teeth or hooves, especially if she's out and about instead of confined to a concrete floor. Talk to your vet about particular annual vaccinations, as they would be different in your area than they would be up here in Alberta.

And you won't get any arguments on here, just some good discussions. :)
 

canesisters

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Other than searching the threads, is there any material you could reccomend that I could read about basic care for backyard dairy cows?
 

greybeard

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You can look for a copy of this
thomash3.jpg


I have not looked at this book, but have seen it recommended in other places.
 

WildRoseBeef

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canesisters

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While I'm waiting for my books to arrive - couple questions.
Calf or young-ish heffer? Why?
The adult cow, stall at night or out in paddock (weather permitting of course)?
... um... Bad weather - stall kept or out in paddock with access to overhang?
Hand milking - just an average - how long does it take?

Hay; I keep seeing 'cow hay' advertized locally with the explination being 'not good enough for horses but still just fine for cows'. But then I read that only good quality alfalfa/clover should be used????
 

WildRoseBeef

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1) Youngish heifer because you don't have to be bottle feeding or worrying about potential for dealing with scours, a very common problem with bottle calves. Young heifers (those at least 3 months old) have pretty much outlived and become more immune to the effects of what pathogens like E. coli could do to a young calf still on milk. You still need to make sure that she's not going to get coccidiosis, because she's still at risk at that age (and up to about a year old).

2) Paddock. You don't need the stall unless it's for milking. Cows aren't exactly diurnal, they're still active and eating at night, especially when it's a clear night with the moon making things easy to see. Cows aren't like people where they are awake all day and sleep all night, they only sleep for a few hours in the early night hours then are up and about again, grazing, feeding, etc. As long as you have her in the paddock, she'll be fine.

3) Again, paddock with access to over-hang or lean-to shed, or let her decide for herself. Not all bad weather is bad weather to cows, it can be raining lightly and they'll still be out grazing. As long as she has open access to the paddock, she'll be able to decide whether she should head for shelter and wait out the worst of the storm, or just stay out and ignore the seemingly gloomy weather. Cows: they're tougher than you think!

4) Can't answer this one, but I'm assuming it'll take anywhere from fifteen minutes to a half hour for those who are really good at it to an hour for the one who is still trying to get it right. Hand milkers??? Maybe you can answer this question better!

5) Hay: When the hay is not as green looking, is dusty, has weeds and timothy spikes can be seen, it's deemed as poor quality hay for horses. Also, when it's more stemmy (like with 70% alfalfa and 30% grass, common with most second-cutting hay), horses will be more picky than the cows. Cows don't mind chowing down on the stemmy stuff or the hay that's got more grass spikes than a horse owner would like to see, and the dustiness doesn't bother them much either. Although, cows do tend to select for the leaves first before cleaning up the stemmy parts of the alfalfa hay last.

Note that good quality isn't necessarily "good quality" for horse folks! What is good quality for cows, like beefers or your average family milk cow (not an expensive cow part of the dairy herd), may be average to poor for the horse folk.
 

greybeard

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Bad weather - stall kept or out in paddock with access to overhang?
I believe you said you were in Va, which is having a horrible winter according to the Va folks I talk to on another ag forum. Snow, ice, cold, wind, mud and rain. It needs somewhere to be able to have some respite in that kind of weather. They can stand cold--can stand wet, can stand wind--put all 3 together, it's hard on them. Roof and at least a place to get out of the wind.
Stall? I'll get to that in a minute*...

As far your choice regarding maturity.
Calf--don't get a young one--too much liklihood of illness--the younger it is, the higher the risk.
"Youngish" heifer--you are wanting milk, that means your target animal has to be:
1. either of breeding age (naturally) and you will have her bred and then wait 9 months. How do you intend to accomplish breeding it?
2*. Or an already bred heifer or older cow,almost ready to calve and begin lactating. but, if it is a young heifer....breed it at appropriate % of mature weight (usually 14-15 months old) she calves 9 months later (2 years old) and that's when you will see her first milk.
You are new to cattle--can you handle a heifer having it's first calf? It can be.....complicated..
Right now, all accross the country there's about a kajillion cattle people sweating bullets as first time heifers start calving the spring calf crop--it's nerve wracking, even for experienced cattlemen and cattlewomen.
3. An older cow that is already lactating. Ding Ding! Ding! As WRB said in her first reply, this is probably your best bet.

*If you get a bred heifer or unbred heifer and you have her bred, you will want somewhere to have her where you can watch when the time gets close--able to secure her when it's time for her to have her calf--somewhere to tie her up--like a stall. If she has trouble, and you have to assist, you don't want to be chasing her around an open paddock to pull that calf. (btdt, got the teeshirt and the dead calf..)
If it's an older or more mature animal that has already had 1 calf successfully, she can probably calve ok out in the paddock.
 

canesisters

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A load of helpful info!! :clap
I'vee found a friend nearby who has a few beef cattle and a couple of dairy mix heffers. He's agreed to trade me 'cow care' lessons for canning lessons. :D =D
To start off, I'm just wanting to be around them and handle them - sort of get a feel for moving them around and such.

Here's another question.
The only 'farm' animals I've had more than just a passing affair with are chickens and horses.
With chickens, if you pickup a new bird, you can not just toss it in the coop - the flock will try to kill it.
However, with horses, you can let them have a day of 'look but don't touch' and then turn them out together and after a little bit of commotion it's usually fine.
What about cows? If I wanted to board her with a neighbor who has a bull for a month or so - is that a feasable idea or just nuts??????
 

canesisters

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1)

2) Paddock. You don't need the stall unless it's for milking. Cows aren't exactly diurnal, they're still active and eating at night, especially when it's a clear night with the moon making things easy to see. Cows aren't like people where they are awake all day and sleep all night, they only sleep for a few hours in the early night hours then are up and about again, grazing, feeding, etc. As long as you have her in the paddock, she'll be fine.

3) Again, paddock with access to over-hang or lean-to shed, or let her decide for herself. Not all bad weather is bad weather to cows, it can be raining lightly and they'll still be out grazing. As long as she has open access to the paddock, she'll be able to decide whether she should head for shelter and wait out the worst of the storm, or just stay out and ignore the seemingly gloomy weather. Cows: they're tougher than you think!

I can modify the barn setup so that she can go under an open-on-3-sides overhang or into a 3-sided shed depending on her opinon of the weather. That worked best for my ancient horse. She became a risk to keep stalled (weak backend, trouble getting up) but did well with much more open shelter.

4) Can't answer this one, but I'm assuming it'll take anywhere from fifteen minutes to a half hour for those who are really good at it to an hour for the one who is still trying to get it right. Hand milkers??? Maybe you can answer this question better!

5) Hay: When the hay is not as green looking, is dusty, has weeds and timothy spikes can be seen, it's deemed as poor quality hay for horses. Also, when it's more stemmy (like with 70% alfalfa and 30% grass, common with most second-cutting hay), horses will be more picky than the cows. Cows don't mind chowing down on the stemmy stuff or the hay that's got more grass spikes than a horse owner would like to see, and the dustiness doesn't bother them much either. Although, cows do tend to select for the leaves first before cleaning up the stemmy parts of the alfalfa hay last.

Note that good quality isn't necessarily "good quality" for horse folks! What is good quality for cows, like beefers or your average family milk cow (not an expensive cow part of the dairy herd), may be average to poor for the horse folk.

GOOD TO KNOW! Do yall have any opinions between square bales or round bales??
 
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