(In)Breeding Question

[Meaghan]

@babsbag: I have, actually. Although Oregon doesn't typically get much snow west of the Cascades, we got a ton of it the three years I was there in undergrad. Sure you have to have more buildings, but I prefer snow to 100 degrees and 60% humidity for 3 months during the summer. The heat index frequently got over 120 this past summer, which is equally hard on livestock.

I grew up in California... And I left for a reason!

No way we could have afforded to buy a house there, especially not with land. Well, unless we went to parts of California so partched for water that the ground is cracking beneath the loose grass.

Our house here in Florida is just over 2200sqft with the garage included, about 10 years old, and sits on 5 acres of mostly well developed pasture given the soil, and cost us less than $200k. Meanwhile my parents house 75 miles east of the Bay Area on 1/4 acre (granted, it's about 3600sqft) cost almost $850k. Just not something we could ever afford on a nurses+veterinary salary. Not for what we want, anyway.

I will definitely let you know what she says regarding this particular buckling, even if we probably won't be buying this kid. This isn't her last kid for the year either, she'll likely have plenty more bucklings between now and April.

 

[babsbag]

I am in Redding and I love it here. The summers are HOT, but dry. I don't like the humidity and don't envy you the Florida weather in the summer.

I lived in Fairfield (you probably know where that is) for 23 years and then abandoned ship to come up here where the prices are a little saner. Was so happy to get out of the city. Just wish it would rain. Being on a well with not much rain is frightening, it makes me very aware of leaks and such.

CA weather is the best, wish I could say that about its politics.

 

[Meaghan]

So, I met with the breeder today and finally understand what she was trying to explain online.

Basically, if you take a sheet of paper and lay out the family tree side by side away from each other (like this: >buck doe<), and label the sires on top and dams on bottom, her ideal she learned from another breeder is to find common lineage diagonally (paternal side of the doe and maternal side of the buck, or paternal side of the buck and maternal side of the doe) between 5-15% COI so to keep certain traits from certain lines strong on both sides.

The reason why she was saying she wouldn't herself do this breeding is due to the common lines being on the maternal side of the doe and the buck. But, after looking at the upcoming breedings, the rest don't have any inbreeding COI at all.

Since she just was inundated with pet grade buck kids, and she doesn't want to bottle raise this buck kid (largest of the triplets) and she's going to have more bucks later, she offered to cut us a deal on this buck if we take and raise him ourselves. Since its a low cost, I think we are going to take the chance and see how he does for our does this year. He looks solid despite only being 5 days old. His head confirmation is amazing and he has a set of straight legs and back.

She may have an older buck that would be good as well, as it seems like a buyer from out of the country has flaked after putting a deposit down. We'll have to wait on that info until March.

 

[OneFineAcre]

So, I met with the breeder today and finally understand what she was trying to explain online.

Basically, if you take a sheet of paper and lay out the family tree side by side away from each other (like this: >buck doe<), and label the sires on top and dams on bottom, her ideal she learned from another breeder is to find common lineage diagonally (paternal side of the doe and maternal side of the buck, or paternal side of the buck and maternal side of the doe) between 5-15% COI so to keep certain traits from certain lines strong on both sides.

The reason why she was saying she wouldn't herself do this breeding is due to the common lines being on the maternal side of the doe and the buck. But, after looking at the upcoming breedings, the rest don't have any inbreeding COI at all.

Since she just was inundated with pet grade buck kids, and she doesn't want to bottle raise this buck kid (largest of the triplets) and she's going to have more bucks later, she offered to cut us a deal on this buck if we take and raise him ourselves. Since its a low cost, I think we are going to take the chance and see how he does for our does this year. He looks solid despite only being 5 days old. His head confirmation is amazing and he has a set of straight legs and back.

She may have an older buck that would be good as well, as it seems like a buyer from out of the country has flaked after putting a deposit down. We'll have to wait on that info until March.

That approach to line breeding is pretty standard now that she explained it. But, keep in mind even if you follow a specific approach, sometimes you get a kid from a breeding and say "where did that come from". And sometimes, when you just "throw something against the wall and see what sticks" (outcross) with your breeding you sometimes get something special.
Sounds like your breeder friend has been doing this for many years. My family has only been breeding goats for 6 years now. The first couple of does we got were pet quality. When we got our first buck, we did more research and purchased an animal with a more proven back ground, but totally un-related to those does. The second breeding of one of those does is the best animal we have bred on this farm.
When we purchased a couple more does from another breeder, we looked a lot closer at common lineage and they are about the same percentage COI, but related on both sides.
Got 4 great bucklings last year out of it, will let you know how it turns out if we ever get any does.
I don't think there is any problem with getting this buckling

 

[Meaghan]

It made perfect sense when she explained it in person, I just didn't understand what she meant by diagonally and top to bottom online because I wasn't picturing the lineage in the right direction. I'm used to seeing them vertically (kid on bottom, parents above, grandparents above parents, etc) so the directional terms just didn't click!

Good to know you think the breeding may turn out well, I figured it was worth the shot. We would only be out $30+registration costs+raising costs. And if he turns out not to be so great, he can always go to be a buck on another farm.

Here are a few pictures of the buckling taken two days after birth.

 

[luvmypets]

He's cute!

 

[OneFineAcre]

It made perfect sense when she explained it in person, I just didn't understand what she meant by diagonally and top to bottom online because I wasn't picturing the lineage in the right direction. I'm used to seeing them vertically (kid on bottom, parents above, grandparents above parents, etc) so the directional terms just didn't click!

Good to know you think the breeding may turn out well, I figured it was worth the shot. We would only be out $30+registration costs+raising costs. And if he turns out not to be so great, he can always go to be a buck on another farm.

Here are a few pictures of the buckling taken two days after birth.

View attachment 7543 View attachment 7544

The point is, the breeding might turn out well, it might not. You could breed him to the same doe and the first couple might be duds and the third awesome.

Are you going to show? What is your goal?
Even if you are going to show, I love my goats who come in last place just as much as my finished champions.
They all can't be champions.

 

[Southern by choice]

The point is, the breeding might turn out well, it might not. You could breed him to the same doe and the first couple might be duds and the third awesome.

Are you going to show? What is your goal?
Even if you are going to show, I love my goats who come in last place just as much as my finished champions.
They all can't be champions.

So true!

 

[Meaghan]

I definitely would like to show, but it's the time constraints for me, plus transportation. We have an SUV with a bumper hitch, but it only can pull around 5klbs so once you add any trailer it goes down to about 1-2klbs capacity depending on the trailer. That, and we don't own a trailer, so renting them adds up.

Realistically until we can afford to buy a trailer any shows that are more than a few hours away aren't going to be feasible for us to attend, and we would only be able to attend while the goats are relatively small.

I definitely know what you mean about the non winners. I love Sapphire to pieces, but she's never going to be a winner because her size just isn't there!

Our main goal is just good production. All of the does are from good lines that produce a lot of good quality milk, and that's really all that matters at the end of the day.

 

[OneFineAcre]

I definitely would like to show, but it's the time constraints for me, plus transportation. We have an SUV with a bumper hitch, but it only can pull around 5klbs so once you add any trailer it goes down to about 1-2klbs capacity depending on the trailer. That, and we don't own a trailer, so renting them adds up.

Realistically until we can afford to buy a trailer any shows that are more than a few hours away aren't going to be feasible for us to attend, and we would only be able to attend while the goats are relatively small.

I definitely know what you mean about the non winners. I love Sapphire to pieces, but she's never going to be a winner because her size just isn't there!

Our main goal is just good production. All of the does are from good lines that produce a lot of good quality milk, and that's really all that matters at the end of the day.

Hey, just take your time. Enjoy your goats. Build up slowly. We have. Been doing it for 6 years, but we have friends who have been doing it for 30 years.
Get that buckling that you can afford now. Breed your girls and see how they look. And see how the kids look.