Tail up or down means what?

[farmerjan]

Actually all the animals are not being infected if they are not coming into direct contact with a contaminated source. We never had another sheep test positive for it, we never had any other signs of it in the sheep. And he was a ram we had raised and bred from for 4 years. The vets were totally stumped as to how he wound up with it. That said, the infection nearly always is passed in cattle through a calf sucking a teat that has manure on it where the cow's udder got dirty or direct contamination by say watery manure. And I am assuming that young lambs and kids would get it the same way. It can live for several months outside the body, at least. But, it doesn't usually show up until an animal is older and has a "stress related" occasion, such as a cow calving. For all the studies, it also seems that there are animals that seem to be naturally resistant to it or once it got into a herd it would decimate all the animals.
All that said, we do not regularly test for it. But we also do alot of rotational grazing and the animals do move from place to place. And again, it is partly that people have to stop feeling sorry for any unthrifty animals of any kind and try to save them. There are alot of ways to protect from diseases, and care should be taken to keep animals healthy. I do advocate vaccinating for some of the diseases, but there are some that cannot be vaccinated for. And again, I do not like modified live virus vaccines.
I do not know much about the different diseases that affect goats so won't even attempt to advise there. We do very little vaccination on our sheep either. We do not milk them, and the biggest problems we have is with foot rot and mostly barber pole worms. The problem ones are being weeded out even though we have sacrificed some very productive ewes that have produced some awesome rams with exceptional horns. If they require too much upkeep, they are not making you any money and they are only contributing to a defect that is a continual drain on the overall flock.

 

[Green Acres Farm]

Actually all the animals are not being infected if they are not coming into direct contact with a contaminated source. We never had another sheep test positive for it, we never had any other signs of it in the sheep. And he was a ram we had raised and bred from for 4 years. The vets were totally stumped as to how he wound up with it. That said, the infection nearly always is passed in cattle through a calf sucking a teat that has manure on it where the cow's udder got dirty or direct contamination by say watery manure. And I am assuming that young lambs and kids would get it the same way. It can live for several months outside the body, at least. But, it doesn't usually show up until an animal is older and has a "stress related" occasion, such as a cow calving. For all the studies, it also seems that there are animals that seem to be naturally resistant to it or once it got into a herd it would decimate all the animals.
All that said, we do not regularly test for it. But we also do alot of rotational grazing and the animals do move from place to place. And again, it is partly that people have to stop feeling sorry for any unthrifty animals of any kind and try to save them. There are alot of ways to protect from diseases, and care should be taken to keep animals healthy. I do advocate vaccinating for some of the diseases, but there are some that cannot be vaccinated for. And again, I do not like modified live virus vaccines.
I do not know much about the different diseases that affect goats so won't even attempt to advise there. We do very little vaccination on our sheep either. We do not milk them, and the biggest problems we have is with foot rot and mostly barber pole worms. The problem ones are being weeded out even though we have sacrificed some very productive ewes that have produced some awesome rams with exceptional horns. If they require too much upkeep, they are not making you any money and they are only contributing to a defect that is a continual drain on the overall flock.

Can't deer carry paratuberculosis? Just a thought.

 

[farmerjan]

Yes it can be carried by every ruminant including deer elk bison etc. It has even been found in some non-ruminants such as foxes and they are not sure if they are a dead end host or a contributing carrier. So how did a mature breeding ram get infected even from an itinerant passing deer???? He ate a piece of grass that an infected deer just happened to do some runny manure on??? You try to practice decent sanitation, and care with your livestock, but you also have to be practical and realize that this is not a perfect world, and that there is something to be said for natural selection. If it is not a basically healthy hardy individual, don't use it as a breeder.

 

[Southern by choice]

Actually all the animals are not being infected if they are not coming into direct contact with a contaminated source.

I disagree, if the animal is not isolated than how would the other animals not come in contact. Fecal matter is the primary source.
There are several ways this is contracted.

Your situation is very interesting. There are some case studies where your situation was similar to another in sheep... yet the goat example was significantly different.
(for anyone interested you have to click on the species at the bottom to see the different case studies)
http://www.johnes.org/general/truecases.html

Johnes is reportable although few do it.
It is also zoonotic.
http://iiad.tamu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Meat-Goat-and-Sheep-Part-2-English.pdf

This is a serious issue for dairy animals be they cows or milk (lessor degree sheep). Pasteurization does not kill MAP (Johnes).
A study done in the UK showed how serious this is... MAP is linked to Crohn's Disease in humans.... 100 containers of milk were taken off grocery store shelves, this milk was pasteurized and for sale... when tested 1 out of every 4 were found to have MAP. 25% of milk being consumed carried MAP. This is serious for the dairy industry here as well, unfortunately, even with an estimated 85% of dairy cattle infected it is the hush hush issue.
Many drinking milk from the animals on their farm feel it is safer and yet most absolutely have no idea of the zoonotic issues associated with livestock.

 

[Green Acres Farm]

This is a serious issue for dairy animals be they cows or milk (lessor degree sheep). Pasteurization does not kill MAP (Johnes).
A study done in the UK showed how serious this is... MAP is linked to Crohn's Disease in humans.... 100 containers of milk were taken off grocery store shelves, this milk was pasteurized and for sale... when tested 1 out of every 4 were found to have MAP. 25% of milk being consumed carried MAP. This is serious for the dairy industry here as well, unfortunately, even with an estimated 85% of dairy cattle infected it is the hush hush issue.
Many drinking milk from the animals on their farm feel it is safer and yet most absolutely have no idea of the zoonotic issues associated with livestock.

Scary.

My vet doesn't think Johne's is a cause Crohn's disease (not saying I think he's right or wrong). There isn't proof it causes it, unlike what the article implies, but with it being linked to it, I wish more research and testing was being done.

 

[Southern by choice]

Scary.

My vet doesn't think Johne's is a cause Crohn's disease (not saying I think he's right or wrong). There isn't proof it causes it, unlike what the article implies, but with it being linked to it, I wish more research and testing was being done.

The US does very little research in this area. Most significant studies are from outside of the US. There is considerable research in other countries.

"Proof"... of course in the US "proof" is often manipulated... you know how this and that is "safe" yet the US has the highest rate of cancer in children in the world. No proof that a,b,c,d,e,f,g, (fill in what you like for those) are dangerous or linked.

 

[Green Acres Farm]

The US does very little research in this area. Most significant studies are from outside of the US. There is considerable research in other countries.

"Proof"... of course in the US "proof" is often manipulated... you know how this and that is "safe" yet the US has the highest rate of cancer in children in the world. No proof that a,b,c,d,e,f,g, (fill in what you like for those) are dangerous or linked.

Very true.

My point is, the article states it as a fact, and it may or may not be true.

 

[Southern by choice]

You need to look at the research other countries are doing.

 

[NH homesteader]

I have to check those links out... Super interested in this topic. Anywhere else I should look for more info?

 

[Southern by choice]

Guess it depends on your focus.