Buck services

[kimmyh]

Yep it was in the Quarter horse world, and that horse had a mutation that cause it to be "double muscled", a very desirable trait for halter horses. It took a lot of testing to eradicate that problem, if I remember correctly I had to have blood drawn and tested-right around $100.

 

[fadetopurple]

I remember reading about something like that in horses at some point.. Don't remember the breed, but there was apparently this one big fancy show horse that everybody wanted a piece of, so it wound up in all kinds of lineage -- on both sides of the ol' family tree -- for that breed.

Well, as it turned out, that particular horse had some weirdo genetic condition that tainted thousands and thousands of animals..

Someone here knows what I'm talking about, I'm sure.. Can't remember the breed, nor the horse's name, nor the condition right off hand..

That's happened a couple times, but it sounds like Impressive the Quarter Horse stallion, and HYPP. It results in horses being more heavily muscled (popular in halter horses), but also causes random and uncontrollable seizing of the muscles. It can and does kill horses. Basically, when it happens, they suffocate - they can't breathe because their diaphragm won't work.

HYPP is a case of incomplete dominance. A horse can be N/N (N being negative for HYPP), N/H, or H/H. A horse who is H/H will be more severely affected than a horse with N/H, but the latter will often still have symptoms and is not necessarily safe to ride.

And unfortunately it has not been wiped out - testing of all Impressive descendants (unless both parents were N/N) is required by the QH registry, but they only recently banned the registration of H/H horses, and N/H are still allowed. It is also found in Appaloosas and Paint horses, since they allow outcrossing to QHs.

 

[kimmyh]

And it has been eliminated in lines that test and only breed N/N, breeding horses that carry the gene, in my opinion is irresponsible.

 

[FlightsofFancy]

I tried to read through all the posts, but did anyone mention AI (artificial insemination)
http://www.biogenicsltd.com/clinics.html
Or a buck share with a friend.
There is always the idea of a quarentine pen. This is how we have done it....send out your girls to a farm that does the same testing as you. Then when they get back put them in the quarentine pen for 8 weeks, with a buddy of course. We keep wethers for this purpose. We then re-test the doe and the wether, worm, hoof trim and bathe before they go back into the herd. It is alot of work, but if you want to introduce new blood into your herd and don't want to buy that buck...it can be worth it.
Personally I think it is a big risk and I agree with alot that has already been stated. I do not offer my buck out, but have been grateful to others that gave me the opportunity to use their buck when I first got started.

 

[Mini-M Ranch]

Personally I think it is a big risk and I agree with alot that has already been stated. I do not offer my buck out, but have been grateful to others that gave me the opportunity to use their buck when I first got started.

Yeah, when you are first start out, everything you read says, "Don't keep a buck when you first starting out." "Keeping a buck can be difficult, we don't recommend you do that until you are well versed in goat care." Blah, Blah, Blah. One place that says that is Fias Co Farms, which we KNOW is full of great information.

So you say, well I am not ready for a buck then. Then all these people tell you how great it can be to raise bucks, how excited it is to see your does kid, how MARVELOUS their bucks are. But NO, THEY DON"T OFFER BUCK SERVICES! I understand it is certainly your perogative to offer or not offer the services, but it is frustrating to us newbies. It's like saying, "Oh, you have to try this bread I made. It's the best bread you have ever tasted. It'll change your life! What? Oh, no! I DON'T GIVE OUT THE RECIPE."

It makes me want to say, "Thanks for being helpful, but you aren't very helpful!"

 

[cmjust0]

Yeah, when you are first start out, everything you read says, "Don't keep a buck when you first starting out."

...I'm gonna add to the above just a little bit.

Not only does everything you read state not to keep a buck at first, but a lot of the same material goes on to tell you all about how you can just line up a service buck breeding for a fee and how to use buck rags and look for standing heats and so forth..

And then within the cover of the very same books, you invariably read about how it's absolutely imperative to start with a clean herd and keep it CLOSED to all outside caprine influence..

Think about that...the very same books that tell you what horrible messes you can get into by bringing outside animals to your farm goes on to straight-up advise that you to take your animal to another farm...which not only breaks the rule they just set forth and stressed so greatly, but assumes there will be plenty of other people who totally ignore the advice on keeping closed herds and are more than willing to allow other folks' goats onto their property to be bred to their animals!

It's paradoxical, at best, but I'd say it's utterly hypocritical.

What almost always happens ends up with.......

Then all these people tell you how great it can be to raise bucks, how excited it is to see your does kid, how MARVELOUS their bucks are. But NO, THEY DON"T OFFER BUCK SERVICES!

.....just exactly what you described right there!



People starting out read all the books and decide they'll simply do a driveway breeding -- regardless of the biosecurity issues -- because they can't or don't want to keep a buck. So, they start looking around for stud services.. Easy enough, right?

Uh oh.. As it turns out, hardly anybody offers that service in the real world....

Why? Because those who own bucks have already been down the road you're about to go down, which goes like this as near as I can tell...

1. "We got some does today! ( )"
2. "Hmmm...breeding...We'll just pay for stud service!"
3. "Um, does anybody offer stud service?"
4. "Ohno, nobody offers stud service...now what?"
5. "We bought a buck today... ( :/ )"
6. "No, sorry, we don't offer stud services. Too risky." (Read that "Um, no...you're not getting off that easy, noob... If we have to put up with a stinkin' buck, so do you. ( )")

Round and round and round she goes.

 

[Mini-M Ranch]

Yup, that's about it.

It makes me think, "well, when I get in to a position where I can keep a buck, I will be helpful and offer buck services because I will remember how difficult and frustrating this is."

But when we have a buck of our own...no, I probably won't offer buck services either.

Really, it isn't that we don't want a buck. Our property is such that we have a neighbor pretty close on one side, and we are trying to be courteous to them. So, there's the rub for us. My husband says maybe we can make a buck pen and plant lilacs all around it to block in the stink. I told him it was a nice thought, but I don't think it will work!

 

[cmjust0]

Yup, that's about it.

It makes me think, "well, when I get in to a position where I can keep a buck, I will be helpful and offer buck services because I will remember how difficult and frustrating this is."

But when we have a buck of our own...no, I probably won't offer buck services either.

SEE!! SEE!?!?!!!

Really, it isn't that we don't want a buck. Our property is such that we have a neighbor pretty close on one side, and we are trying to be courteous to them. So, there's the rub for us. My husband says maybe we can make a buck pen and plant lilacs all around it to block in the stink. I told him it was a nice thought, but I don't think it will work!

Somebody should make a stinkless buck.

Hey, if they can make thornless roses, seedless grapes, and polled bulls...why not?!?!

 

[fadetopurple]

And it has been eliminated in lines that test and only breed N/N, breeding horses that carry the gene, in my opinion is irresponsible.

Agreed!

I tried to read through all the posts, but did anyone mention AI (artificial insemination)
http://www.biogenicsltd.com/clinics.html

I was wondering this as well, so I looked it up. It sounds like it's too expensive for someone with just a couple of does to mess around with. It requires equipment to keep the semen frozen until the doe is in heat. I wonder if anyone's ever tried a low-tech alternative with local semen, so it gets used quickly and doesn't have to be cooled/frozen. Seriously, is there a reason that wouldn't work?

 

[FlightsofFancy]

I know it's totally frustrating! But really what are you suppose to do? Risk your herd to help someone else out? My two bucks individually cost me more than any of my does.
It all boils down to networking....find other breeders that you trust. Get your friends involved...share a buck. I have a few friends that have the same ideas and goals...we swap our bucks around.

Also...AI doesn't have to involve all the exspensive equipment. They will come out with the frozen semen and inseminate your doe....you just have to stand her still...talk about a driveway breeding. I just purchased an AI doeling from a GCH Sire that is dead. Pretty cool! You can definatley do local collection...I am just learning, but plan to attend some seminars in the future.

cmjust0:
1. "We got some does today! ( )"
2. "Hmmm...breeding...We'll just pay for stud service!"
3. "Um, does anybody offer stud service?"
4. "Ohno, nobody offers stud service...now what?"
5. "We bought a buck today... ( )"
6. "No, sorry, we don't offer stud services. Too risky." (Read that "Um, no...you're not getting off that easy, noob... If we have to put up with a stinkin' buck, so do you. ( )")

Round and round and round she goes.

SO TRUE!!!! You CRACK ME UP!