Building a farm from scratch?

[LMK17]

Anyone here build your own farm and house from scratch? We're wondering if that's an option for us, but we don't know where to start!

Some questions off the top of my head:

1) What would you say are some things to look for in a piece of raw land/future farm?

2) Any idea how to estimate the costs to build a house on a rural property? Likely, we'd go the modular route. (This is not the same as a mobile home.) In particular, I worry about high costs to bring utilities on if the property is large and the house is far from the road. We are hoping for +/- 20 acres. Is there a way to estimate the cost per foot-- or something like that--to run water or electric lines?

3) Suppose we buy un-fenced, totally raw land. Is there a way to roll the costs of farming infrastructure into our mortgage and/or is there a low interest loan we could look into for things like fencing, barns/outbuildings, land clearing, etc?

4) If you were buildng a home, what sorts of features would you absolutely want?

5) What else would you say is important to consider when thinking about building a farmstead/homestead?

5) Suppose you were deciding between an older home (many farm houses here are 30-50 yrs old) and building a new modular home. Which would you chose, and why? If you were to choose the new home, how much more would you be willing to pay for it before you decided to go with the older house? Assume the lot size and layout are similar, the houses are approximately the same square footage, both nicely fenced, etc.

 

[Latestarter]

You are saying "modular" which is basically a stick built home that's built in a factory as 100% completed modules (many include furniture and fixtures) that are trucked to the sight and bolted together. Most modular homes are MORE expensive per square foot than an exact duplicate stick built home on site. There are also manufactured homes, which are basically upgraded trailers that are rolled to the site and then the wheels and axles are removed and they are set on piers (typically - crawl space), a slab (but still elevated - crawl space), or on a basement foundation (less common, expensive, but nice).

Don't completely rule out manufactured homes as many today are built to stick built standards including 2x6 walls/ceilings, upgraded insulation, high $$ bathrooms, kitchens, & floorings, etc. Today's manufactured homes are nothing like the trailers most envision when you think "trailer park" or "trailer trash"... Though they are still looked upon with some doubt and possible revulsion, they also are not always going to drop in value either. Granted, they will not appreciate like a designer, brick home, but they won't cost to buy like one either...

For estimates of cost to bring power and water in, contact the local electric provider and water company and ask them. They should be able to give you a way to estimate or a contact person who can help you.

 

[Mini Horses]

Allowable land use, including animal counts allowed, fencing restrictions, etc. Well depth average & if water available. Any existing leases &/or faming agreements. Easements &/or restrictions of record. Current/prior use. Taxes, Ag exemptions. Water, mineral rights -- any sold/restricted. Perc requirements & land perc testing. Soil samples. Topography of parcel AND surrounding areas for at least 50 miles; proximity to creeks/rivers, or "dry wash" areas. Distance to medical facilities, stores, work (if you have a job), schools, prisons, etc. "Normal" annual weather, crime rates, airports, common predators in area, hunting seasons ............

And a few more things

 

[norseofcourse]

I'll just mention one thing - if you build you have more control over the layout of the buildings. At my place I can see some of the pasture from my house (love looking out the kitchen window and seeing ponies or sheep!), but the detatched garage that's behind and slightly to the side of the house blocks my view of a lot of the pasture, and a lot of the barn. If I ever built from scratch, I'd lay things out so I had as unobstructed a view of the pasture(s) and all animal areas as possible, from the house/driveway/backyard.

 

[greybeard]

ome questions off the top of my head:

1) What would you say are some things to look for in a piece of raw land/future farm?

A clear, lien-free, un-contestable title with current survey. Good well drained non-rocky soil, but not perfectly flat either. Flat ground tends to turn into a dish once it's been driven on and worked for a couple years. Percobility is a plus as well, as you will most likely have to install a septic system. If the soil won't accept and distribute fluids laterally as well as vertically, you will have to install an aerobic waste water system which will be more expensive than a traditional septic tank and distribution field line. In the central Texas area, it is advisable to avoid a place covered in mesquite. Mesquite can be a chore to get rid of and it sucks up available ground water like crazy, which you will need for grass.
Cell, TV, and internet service and signal availability is a big thing nowadays, tho that can be had via sat just about anywhere.

2) Any idea how to estimate the costs to build a house on a rural property? Likely, we'd go the modular route. (This is not the same as a mobile home.) In particular, I worry about high costs to bring utilities on if the property is large and the house is far from the road. We are hoping for +/- 20 acres. Is there a way to estimate the cost per foot-- or something like that--to run water or electric lines?

Not going to address the house part, as I have no idea what your particular needs and wants in an abode is.
Electric power can be very expensive to get run, depending how far your house pad is from a main line. Main line in Texas is usually just 2 wires--a hot and a neutral (they split the hot at a transformer near your home site to get two 240v lines + a neutral) . The cost varies, but If there is a main running along one of your property lines the first pole on your property and up to 300' of wire is usually free, anything over than is on you. It cost me nearly $15, 000 to get a line run from the nearest tie in (about 1500'). That was just to get power to my property. I have a friend that lives and runs cattle way out in the boonies, and he opted to buy a BIG generator and 2000 gal diesel tank and provide his own power rather than pay for several miles of poles and high voltage wire. For the lower voltage lines on your property in excess of the first several hundred feet, the cost I've seen varies anywhere from $3 to $20 a running foot. You may not have to pay all this up front. Some utilities will divide it up into installments that you pay as part of your monthly usage. It will be difficult for you to find answers to the electrical question until you actually find the piece of property you want and get an electric utility engineer out and see where everything is and is going to be. I would avoid any mention of self sufficiency (solar panels or wind power) and you can sometimes get a break on the initial power infrastructure costs if you go all-electric. (no propane tank, no gas water heater, no gas dryer or gas kitchen appliances.)

3) Suppose we buy un-fenced, totally raw land. Is there a way to roll the costs of farming infrastructure into our mortgage and/or is there a low interest loan we could look into for things like fencing, barns/outbuildings, land clearing, etc?

Best bet on that, is to work with your lender or a govt agency such as FSA/USDA. (Farm Services Agency.
https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-a...ms/beginning-farmers-and-ranchers-loans/index
https://www.usda.gov/topics/farming/grants-and-loans
Problem you may run in to is that you (from reading your posts) intend to be a hobbyist farmer and not into production. Most of these programs are geared toward the production and marketing of agricultural goods and services, not backyard farmers.

Fences are nothing. I built fences across solid rock in San Angelo, and across mud in East Texas and Louisiana. Drove Tee posts from a boat, and strung and stretched miles of wire by hand and dug hundreds and hundreds of postholes, mostly with an old fashioned pair of posthole diggers. Built some when I was 15 and 16 that are still standing and holding cattle today 50+ years later.

4) If you were buildng a home, what sorts of features would you absolutely want?

Did it in 2009. Wish I had built less house. A house is just a box with 4 walls and a roof & floor. You never see more than the wall you happen to be looking toward at any given time. Something to keep the bugs, wind and rain out, warm in the winter and cool in the summer. I had nice house built to please my wife, and people come to visit and ohh and ahh over it but we don't even notice any more, and I never did anyway.

5) What else would you say is important to consider when thinking about building a farmstead/homestead?

A long view. A strong back and a vision. I took this place from 50 year+ forest stating in Dec 2006 and by the time I drove the last staple in my yard fence in May 2009 was running 20 momma cows on good pasture with good fences and did almost all of it the old fashioned way, by hand, sweat and blood. Fought wildfire, army worms, bit by a copperhead, endured flood waters so high I couldn't see 3/4 of the property or the tops of the fences, run thieves and salesmen off at gunpoint, killed coyotes, killed thousands of invasive chinese tallow trees, and built roads and dams. Adversity is just something to be met head on and wrestled to the ground, not something to be used as an excuse.
when I started--you're looking at the tops of 90' tall trees:

mid 2008 I think, before I got it raked, piled and burned.

Same area in 2009

 

[LMK17]

You are saying "modular" which is basically a stick built home that's built in a factory as 100% completed modules (many include furniture and fixtures) that are trucked to the sight and bolted together. Most modular homes are MORE expensive per square foot than an exact duplicate stick built home on site. There are also manufactured homes, which are basically upgraded trailers that are rolled to the site and then the wheels and axles are removed and they are set on piers (typically - crawl space), a slab (but still elevated - crawl space), or on a basement foundation (less common, expensive, but nice).

Interesting that you say modular is more expensive! Are you speaking from experience? Everything that I've seen says modular tends to be less expensive, so I'm surprised to hear this. I've also seen that modular tends to be more energy efficient and stands up better to bad weather, which are the major benefits in DH's and my eyes- value versus cost. If we could also get a modular home built in less time than a site-built house, that would just be the icing on the cake. Currently, we're looking at Pratt Homes. If we get serious about building, we'll likely make the drive out to Tyler to see their models. We are also in the process of identifying conventional builders to talk to, as, well. Still keeping all options open.

Anyone here have experience with modular houses?

...Electric power can be very expensive to get run, depending how far your house pad is from a main line. Main line in Texas is usually just 2 wires--a hot and a neutral (they split the hot at a transformer near your home site to get two 240v lines + a neutral) . The cost varies, but If there is a main running along one of your property lines the first pole on your property and up to 300' of wire is usually free, anything over than is on you. It cost me nearly $15, 000 to get a line run from the nearest tie in (about 1500'). That was just to get power to my property. I have a friend that lives and runs cattle way out in the boonies, and he opted to buy a BIG generator and 2000 gal diesel tank and provide his own power rather than pay for several miles of poles and high voltage wire...

Best bet on that, is to work with your lender or a govt agency such as FSA/USDA. (Farm Services Agency.
https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-a...ms/beginning-farmers-and-ranchers-loans/index
https://www.usda.gov/topics/farming/grants-and-loans
Problem you may run in to is that you (from reading your posts) intend to be a hobbyist farmer and not into production. Most of these programs are geared toward the production and marketing of agricultural goods and services, not backyard farmers.

A long view. A strong back and a vision...

Thanks for the info on running the electric. Fortunately, most of the places we're looking at seem to have utilities running along a side of the property, so that should simplify things a bit. I definitely don't want to go all electric; one of the big draws for me in building a place is the ability to diversify energy sources right off the bat. Our current house is all electric, and I hate having everything cut off when the power goes out. And not sure we'll ever generate enough for all our electric needs, but I definitely want to research solar power for our new place.

We checked into the USDA stuff over the weekend. You're correct that our vision isn't compatible with their loan programs.

I don't mind adversity and hard work, but the reality is I've got dependent children for at least the next 14 years. I also choose to homeschool. I've got a husband who's gone nearly from sunup to sundown 5 days a week. And we're 1500 miles from our nearest family. As much as I admire the pioneering spirit and the idea of forging my own place out of totally raw, untamed land, the reality for me is that I have too many other things that need prioritizing. That's a huge consideration for me, and in my mind, it adds that much gravity to the decision of building vs buying existing construction with all the infrastructure in place already. Even if we do go with building, I want to look with a sharp eye toward anything that already has something started (be it existing fences, some cleared land, a well, whatever).

That said, you've done some nice work with your place! Congrats!

 

[Latestarter]

Interesting that you say modular is more expensive! Are you speaking from experience? Everything that I've seen says modular tends to be less expensive, so I'm surprised to hear this. I've also seen that modular tends to be more energy efficient and stands up better to bad weather, which are the major benefits in DH's and my eyes- value versus cost. If we could also get a modular home built in less time than a site-built house, that would just be the icing on the cake.

I did extensive research into modular homes before I sold my place in CO and moved down here. Initially I was looking to buy land and build, and coming from a 1987 model manufactured home, I decided that would be my last choice over stick built or modular. I pretty quickly determined that (modular) wouldn't work for me. From the research I've done, modulars do seem to be (are?) better built than many stick built on-site homes... Primarily because the modules are built in a controlled environment (inside - no weather, bad site conditions, etc.) on an assembly line. The higher quality assessment is mostly because they are being compared to the largest segment of stick built homes which happen to be the sub development tract homes that are built cookie cutter style with the cheapest everything, including labor & materials, as well as the minimum required standards... (I've had one built from the slab up and lived in several so I know) I hate to say it but even the premier homes built semi custom by large corporation builders are still sub par compared against a true premier private builder. They still use the cheapest everything involved.

When you start comparing a modular to a custom built home by a "premier" private, local builder (NOT a huge corporation builder), there's really no comparison as you pick EVERY thing you'll have in a custom home (and you pay for that too, which is why they DO cost more than a modular). Modular companies can't compete with that for the most part. Remember, they are a manufacturing plant that also puts out "cookie cutter" plans. They also have a huge investment in structures/manufacturing buildings/equipment that they have to pay for and maintain. I understand there are now modular companies that CAN and will (to some degree) work with you to incorporate specific things that you want in your home to make it semi custom, but the bottom line comes down to size limitations... The completed modules MUST be small/light enough that they can be trucked to your site and craned into place on whatever foundation you have; slab/basement. Once the modules arrive, they all need to be matched, connected, and all electrical/plumbing/roofing/trim/etc. all has to be connected/done/added and that's expensive. You CAN get that standard model modular home faster than a stick built, but if you want anything changed or different, that will take time. And once ordered, you can't change anything without substantial time and money costs.

In the estimates that I did, the finished (move in ready) cost of that "reasonably priced" modular home was greater than two times the initial cost... Yeah...

So yes, you may buy the 4 bedroom, 2.5 bath, 2200 square foot home for $100-120,000.00, but by the time you move in, that home will have actually cost you up to or well over a quarter mil. The garages, decks, patios, porches, etc. are all add ons... you also have to add into account all the other things you'll need such as land prep, permits, inspections, water/electric/septic-sewer/foundation/driveway-access to the site as well as the hook ups. This is why the price more than doubles to make it move in ready. You also have to pay all the contractors/subs that do the installations. Then add in the price of the land... When you dig deep, you may end up like me; completely surprised at the real costs.

In the estimates I did, by the time I had the land and the modular built and me moved in, I would not be able to sell the finished product for what I had invested... I would have lost money. So to break even or profit, I'd have had to live in the home for however many years for the market price to catch up to what it had cost me. Fine for a forever home or retirement (forever) home, but wouldn't work for me (at that time).

If you do go that route, I certainly hope you'll stay with us long enough to share your experience with it! I'm sure many would be interested!

 

[Baymule]

I would buy land with an old house and remodel it. We live in a double wide on 8 acres, but it was a HUD repo and we practically stole it. We left a 2500 sq ft brick home for a 1500 sq ft double wide so we could be close to our DD and family.

There was nothing here but the double wide. No fence, nothing. We have come a long way in 2 1/2 years, but still have work to do. If you are finding farms with 40-50 year old homes, then there must be other infrastructure as well. As far as financing fence and barn in the loan, I sure wouldn't do it, but that's just me.

 

[Bossroo]

Modular homes are built with keeping production costs down so , depending on the manufacturer, just may be limited where you would prefer your walls, appiences, etc. to be. Often you will find some counties / cities have building rules/ regulations to not allow manufactured homes. Then you will face the delivery and specific site location on your land and preperation utility hookup, etc. costs which will vary as to location of your land. Then when the house is sitting on your land , in many cases it's value depreciates compared to stick construction when you need to sell if your job situation changes or you just decide to sell. The buyer will in many cases will want to remodel but will be limited due to the house construction indiosyncresies. Often a buyer will pass on your property as they do not want a modular or mobile home as they percieve it as less than quality construction, so you are limiting number of possible buyers. Etc.

 

[LMK17]

I did extensive research into modular homes before I sold my place in CO and moved down here. Initially I was looking to buy land and build, and coming from a 1987 model manufactured home, I decided that would be my last choice over stick built or modular...

In the estimates that I did, the finished (move in ready) cost of that "reasonably priced" modular home was greater than two times the initial cost... Yeah...

So yes, you may buy the 4 bedroom, 2.5 bath, 2200 square foot home for $100-120,000.00, but by the time you move in, that home will have actually cost you up to or well over a quarter mil.

In the estimates I did, by the time I had the land and the modular built and me moved in, I would not be able to sell the finished product for what I had invested... I would have lost money. So to break even or profit, I'd have had to live in the home for however many years for the market price to catch up to what it had cost me. Fine for a forever home or retirement (forever) home, but wouldn't work for me (at that time).

If you do go that route, I certainly hope you'll stay with us long enough to share your experience with it! I'm sure many would be interested!

Thanks a bunch for sharing your experience! I know what you mean about the modulars being compared to the "typical" subdivision site-built house. I grew up in my parents' 1920 farmhouse but now live in a cookie cutter subdivision. No comparison! Dang it, I can't even properly hang curtains on my windows. The drywall can't support them! So definitely the reputation for quality that modulars seem to have is a major influence in our decision to consider them, even if you are just comparing them to the type of house we live in now.

We have a contact with a guy in the home inspection business. We've called him for some thoughts on builders in the area who make a quality product versus whom we should avoid. Really looking forward to what he has to say.

I'm not really in the market for a "show house." I can totally do cookie cutter, as long as the quality is there. Anyway, I rather enjoy tinkering around the house and can do flooring, tile, some plumbing and electrical, and so on. At this point, I want a place with the best "bones" we can afford, and I can play around with it later on if I want something a bit more fancy than what it comes with.

Fortunately, we did discover pretty early on the the sticker price on the modular homes is no where near the finished price. And our house budget (not including the land) is about $250K-$300K. So we should be able to get a nice modular OR site-built house for that; it'll hopefully just be a matter of which one gives us a better bang for the buck. Overall, we think we can afford a $450K mortgage without too much difficulty, especially if the property taxes aren't too high. (i.e. A moderately sized house on ag exempt land.) We're really trying to stay under $200K for the land-- Land here in some cases is going for +/- $10K an acre. So the ideal situation for us would be to get the land for $150ish then figure a budget of $250K for the house and necessary related expenses. Would work out to a manageable mortgage w/extra built in for unexpected expenses and enough left over every month to start putting together some farming infrastructure. Hopefully.

One thing that scares me, though, is we live in a <1900 sqft house, totally cookie cutter, builders' grade everything, surely slapped together for as little expense as possible. Just got a letter from the insurance company stating that they're upping our insurance coverage because a new estimate to replace the house is $200K! What's a conventional builder going to want to build me a higher quality place!!? And even then, could I really turn around and quickly sell the house for what I paid to build it?? (Granted, we are looking for a "forever" home at this point, so resale price isn't very high on our list of priorities. But still.)

I would buy land with an old house and remodel it.

Believe me, that's an option, and we've tried it! The problem is finding a house worth remodeling! We've offered on 2:

House #1 was 40 years old on 13 acres. A little smaller than our current place. A few so-so outbuildings and nice perimeter fences. After going back and forth a bit, the owners "gave in" and accepted our offer of $360. We knew the house needed some work. One room was down to studs and needed drywall. A bathroom was original down to the blue bathtub and wallpaper. Kitchen was a mix of old and newer appliances with the original cabinets. Whole house had the original carpet. Still, ya know, doable. Unfortunately, the inspection uncovered irreparable issues with the foundation and other serious issues with every other major system in the house. (In hindsight, we should've seen some of the warning signs ourselves but missed them. Live and learn.) Anyway, we called the inspection halfway through and walked.

House #2 was 50 years old on 26 acres. Just a hair larger than our current home but only 2 bedrooms. Some nice outbuildings built at the same time as the house. House and garage looked solid but masonry joints needed repointing and there were 1 or 2 questionable cracks through the exterior. Gorgeous land and really solid fences and cross-fences. We figured we'd get the place, carve out a 3rd bedroom, repoint the bricks, and install a bathtub where there was just a shower stall. Wanted to update the kitchen, too, but knew that would have to wait. We offered $425K. Owner said she wouldn't take a penny under $449. We came up to $436. She said, didn't you hear me the first time?

Otherwise, we really haven't found places that look worth updating. Most of the houses on acreage that fall within the price range where we could update them are mobile homes, and I just don't see getting $400K+ into a place to update a trailer, KWIM? The amount of money some people want for the places is just amazing! I'm sure it's the proximity to San Antonio that's driving up prices. But, anyway, we are keeping our eyes out for a good deal. Just hasn't happened yet...

Modular homes are built with keeping production costs down so , depending on the manufacturer, just may be limited where you would prefer your walls, appiences, etc. to be. Often you will find some counties / cities have building rules/ regulations to not allow manufactured homes. Then you will face the delivery and specific site location on your land and preperation utility hookup, etc. costs which will vary as to location of your land. Then when the house is sitting on your land , in many cases it's value depreciates compared to stick construction when you need to sell if your job situation changes or you just decide to sell. The buyer will in many cases will want to remodel but will be limited due to the house construction indiosyncresies. Often a buyer will pass on your property as they do not want a modular or mobile home as they percieve it as less than quality construction, so you are limiting number of possible buyers. Etc.

Fortunately, we're looking for land in unrestricted areas, so build restrictions aren't too big a consideration for us, and I'm OK with cookie cutter design. We're also planning to keep this next place for many years, so the immediate resale value isn't a huge concern. That said, everything I've read indicates that modular homes hold their value well. What makes you say they'll depreciate? You're right about remodeling. The fact that it's more difficult to do with modular homes is a negative. As far as buyers passing up a modular, I don't know. Again, resale isn't at the forefront of my mind, but I can say that I-- much like any other modern buyer-- screen properties online. I tend to pretty quickly discount houses that look "trailer-ish." You know, low and rectangular. Maybe a little roof peak right over the front door, which is smack dab in the middle of the house. Obvious skirting all around the place. But some modular homes definitely don't have that "look" to them, and if I came across one that looked like a site-built home, I would consider looking at it. Actually, I very nearly went out to look at a particularly nice looking mobile home after I spent an inordinate amount of time staring at the photos online trying to figure out if it actually was a mobile. LOL



I was just really unprepared to not be able to find a good place in our price range fairly quickly! For all it's faults, I really do like our current house. We're only moving because we want more land and no HOA, but I would pick up our house and plonk it down on a 25 acre plot if I could! Anyway, this place cost us $150K ten years ago, and I figured that with the significantly higher budget we have now, we would get an even nicer house (not huge or anything, just higher overall quality) on some land. Seeing now that most of the houses on acreage in our budget are actually waaay older and in some ways less nice than our current place is a hard pill to swallow.