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Calf Manna organic?

Discussion in 'Organic Husbandry - Goats' started by Shea Zellweger, Oct 28, 2018.

  1. Oct 28, 2018
    Shedinator

    Shedinator Exploring the pasture

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    Hey y'all,

    We just got our first two goat doelings about 2 weeks ago, and they're a little under where I want them to be weight-wise (the larger is at 58 lbs by the hg*hg*l/300 calculation. I plan to scale her sons). I'd like to try and get at least one of them to breeding weight this season, and everywhere sends to be recommending Calf-Manna. Is there an organic equivalent supplement? Or am I basically going to have to count on hay+grain+successful breeding on the first try?
     
  2. Oct 28, 2018
    greybeard

    greybeard Herd Master Golden Herd Member

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    The quick answer is......Calf Manna is not "organic".
     
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  3. Oct 28, 2018
    Shedinator

    Shedinator Exploring the pasture

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    Thanks. I had deduced that already. Just wasn't sure if there was an organic alternative. According to USDA standards, I can't call any dairy product organic until the doe has been organic for 12 months, so it looks like one way or another I won't have 'organic' milk until 2020 unless I can find another way to gain those last few pounds or get really lucky with breeding.
     
  4. Oct 28, 2018
    farmerjan

    farmerjan True BYH Addict

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    Try researching Countryside Organic Feed in Waynesboro, Va. They are local to me, but I do know they are all about organic feed and supplements. I don't feed organic grain as I cannot afford it. We do however try to use as few chemicals as we possibly can on our hay ground and such. But we use commercial poultry litter and they are not fed organic feed so the litter is not organic. Still we use as few chemicals as we can on our land and in our operation. Organic is fine if you have a serious issue with chemical sensitivity, or other issues; but here it is as important that it be "homegrown, naturally raised " and other type things. People want to know the farmer, and how they do things.
    Understand that you cannot use any of the commercial wormers and such on your goats either, if you want to be "certified organic". Or any drugs of any sort if they got really sick.
    One thing I always try to impress on people.... if your child were very sick and the doctor said you needed to use "xyz" antibiotic to cure what ailed them, would you refuse? Or after that, once he is healthy again, is he a "lesser" child because he had been treated? Once you treat a dairy animal, it can no longer be used for production of "organic" milk. Have a dairy farmer that went organic. He has over the years had some cows get sick that had to be treated with antibiotics. Once they were "cured" and the with holding time was past, they had to leave the farm as they would never be able to qualify for organic milk. So in order to save a cows life from say a severe klebsiella mastitis infection, they treat it, and cure it, then have to cull the cow. He would send the cows to his cousin who was not organic, and who could continue to get some value out of the cow.
    And when did they change it to 12 months? Used to be that it was 3 years of all organic feed for the milk to be organic, but once antibiotics were used, the milk could not be called organic. Well, you could wait 3 more years again.... but let's face it, that is not practical. And the animal could not be slaughtered as organic once it has had any antibiotic in it's system, ever.
    Maybe the standards have changed since I researched it.
    Do you have a source of both certified organic feed and HAY there in Ct.? If the hay person uses any type of commercial fertilizer, or things like commercial poultry litter, then it is not organic.
     
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  5. Nov 23, 2018
    farmerjan

    farmerjan True BYH Addict

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    Was hoping to see some more posts from you @Shedinator . Where in Ct. are you if you don't mind me asking? I was born and raised in Stamford, then lived in Newtown for about 10 years before I moved to the Shenandoah Valley in Va in 1981. It was getting way too "white collar" for me even in Newtown, and the prices were going up and taxes and all; plus I wanted to move a days drive away from my ex before I did something stupid like shoot him!!!! My family was mostly still in the Stamford area, but now are scattered. Would not move back to the expenses and aggravations of that area although upper Ct is pretty and more farm oriented.
    But I like Va and love the mountains in the near distance. One of the biggest reasons I moved south. Blue Ridge mountains are alot like the Green Mts. of Vermont where I spent alot of time as a kid with family & all up there... with ALOT LESS WINTER than Vermont and much more to my liking of "blue collar" farmer types here. Although in the past 15 years alot of "damn Yankees" have moved south.... if they wouldn't try to change it to be like where they came from it wouldn't be so bad.. but they won't leave it be, but want to "make it better ". I liked it the way it was, and so does my son, and we constantly tell transplants to go back where they came from if they can't accept it the way it is. And we are the ultimate new england "yankee transplants"....
     
  6. Nov 25, 2018
    Shedinator

    Shedinator Exploring the pasture

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    I completely forgot about this thread, sorry.

    I'm in the greater New Haven area.

    I am more than willing to use antibiotics and such in my goats, and am not necessarily seeking "organic" status, or even certification. What I've found with my eggs and chicken meat, though, is that customers seem more willing to buy if in addition to being locally and humanely raised, I can say they've been fed an organic diet. If I can't say that because I need to feed non-organic to my girls to get them up to weight, that's fine (and I started doing so shortly after posting this!) But I was curious about alternatives
     
  7. Nov 25, 2018
    farmerjan

    farmerjan True BYH Addict

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    I understand that buyers seem to feel that they "need" organic, when they would turn right around and do something totally "non-organic" if it suited them better. It's like "organic" is the status word for some. Not all, some really do have issues with chemical reactions, but many don't.
    I get where you are coming from with the marketing angle, but there are some things that I don't know if there is an organic counterpart like calf manna.
    God bless you being in the "greater New Haven" area. I wouldn't be able to live in the southwestern part of Ct again. I have become a true Va blue collar sh*t shoveling farmer. There are things I sometimes miss but mostly the people and family that we had in Vt and the laid back life they had before too many flatlanders moved up there for the "skiing" and such and the pastoral quality of northern New England was compromised too. Had family that dairy farmed many years ago, but it is just not practical for that with low milk prices and high land prices and higher taxes.
     
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