Clover's Kidding Thread :D

[Goatgirl47]

So, the breeder I got Clover from said that I needed to worm her the day she kidded, but I had no wormer (except for Diatomaceous Earth, will that work?), and I forgot. *face palm* She also said Clover needed to be wormed ten days after she kidded. Can I use Diatomaceous Earth? Or what other natural dewormer do you recommend?

Lulu is a little friendlier then Annie, although they both will run up to and meh when they see you.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

Can you run a fecal on her first?

 

[Goatgirl47]

Run a fecal? I have never done that.

 

[babsbag]

Those babies are just tooo cute, I want to squeeze them. Are you sure there isn't a Togg in the wood pile somewhere? Brown is just not an alpine color but oh so cute.

I'll leave the fecal to @Goat Whisperer as I just don't have to deal with worms on my farm. I am SO happy that something good comes of living in a drought. Also I was told that Oak leaves and acorns are a natural wormer too and that is about the only browse my girls get. I usually worm once a year with Ivermectin but this year I didn't even do that. Come spring and fresh grass I will spot check a few, but doubt I will find anything.

How do Clover's eyelids look? Are they nice and pink? I can't speak to using DE, no experience at all.

 

[Latestarter]

Cute, Cute, Cute kids! I don't think you should worm just because some one said/says to, without first finding out if it's even needed. Follow Clover around with a small collection utensil so when she poops, you can catch some in said utensil. Then do the same for each kid. Then take samples to your vet ASAP (refrigerate if you can't go immediately) so he/she (or designated lab technician) can check for worms and recommend a treatment if needed for whatever type worm may be present.

Alternately, you can buy a microscope, slides, slide medium, and an illustrated guide and learn to do your own fecals. Actually, @Southern by choice has done several excellent articles here on the site on pretty much all aspects of this.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

Like LS said, you will need to grab some berries and have a vet or a lab run the fecal. Make sure the vet knows goats and see if you can get a McMasters decal test. Doing this will give you the actual count.

She probably will need wormed with the stress of the move as well as kidding.

With the DE, I know some swear by it however these are usually people who don't have much knowledge on parasites. Not trying to put anyone down on this forum or anywhere else. I have been to many farms who will go on and on about how great the DE is, how they never use the nasty chemical dewormers..... Up until I grab a sample and find that the animal has a sky high load and they have white eyelids.

I think the issue is that so many get caught up in this idea of using the DE that they never look at the facts. They never run a fecal after to see if there is a reduction.
Same goes with the herbal treatments.

Many will say they gave it and then didn't see worms in the poo, this is an unreliable method as you simply cannot see what they truly have with the naked eye.

At this point the kids are to young to really have anything so you can wait with them. Goat kids differ from puppies in that area.

 

[Latestarter]

Whew! THANK you for your comments about DE... It is ground up diatoms, prehistoric shell fossils.

It is VERY bad for you to breath... think powdered glass. It works on DRY insects as it sucks the moisture out of them causing death. It does NOT do this in any kind of wet or moist situation. Moisture defeats its purpose entirely. Putting it in feed (for the most part where it's used) is to kill any pests that might get in and eat/defecate in the feed prior to use. You can "dust bathe" chickens and livestock to help kill lice or mites, but as I said, it's VERY bad to breathe, and when chickens dust bathe, they make quite a dust cloud, that they are breathing...

Taken internally, you'd need quite a lot and it wouldn't kill the internal parasites but more like (maybe) "scrape them" off their attachment. If they are able to re-attach before being evacuated, all you will have done is cause some internal bleeding where the wound is.

If you want to use it and believe in it, more power to you. It has some uses, but is being touted for others that just don't make sense.

 

[Southern by choice]

There are effective "natural" or holistic remedies.

BUT I too would like to add to the discussion...

Sadly many using these programs do NOT do any fecal analysis.
A goat may do fine on a particular program for years but then something changes ... those changes could be an excessively hot/humid climate with months of rain or snow etc... and suddenly there is a parasitic explosion. Stress related- such as a move, kidding - pregnancy hormones increase parasitic reproduction. This is why many do a deworming 30 days prior to kidding. The kidding process takes a great deal out of the doe and now the doe is in lactation which requires a great deal from her body. With a high number of parasites this just wears the doe down... effects lactation as well as overall health.
The herbals may not be enough and it is wise to know when a chemical anthelmintic (dewormer) is necessary.

Sadly some absolutely refuse and their animal suffers.

After visiting so many farms and running fecals we (my partner- Goat Whisperer) have found the same thing over and over. Shocked owners that have serious parasite infestations and they were kind of "blinded" by it. I think sometimes they are not watching and really being realistic because in the back of their mind they are giving this herbal faithfully. Some just go into total denial or up their herbals... sorry but a 1600-2200 EPG Count says your herbal ain't working.

I have watched many go the natural approach to all kinds of treatments... seen too many goats die in the process. One of our vets does a great deal of holistic care for goats but this same vet always says the same thing... if you own goats and absolutely refuse to treat your goat with an anti-biotic or a dewormer or any other drug that may be necessary to save it's life DON'T OWN GOATS!

We too prefer to do as little chemical intervention as we can and herbals etc are IMO great just don't rule out the other as at some point it may be necessary. Good understanding of FAMACHA as well as fecal analysis is really important. Also managing your property... not all can do pasture rotation so understanding how to work your land is key.

Below is a link to a very good resource for holistic products!

http://landofhavilahfarm.com/loh/natural-raising/my-holistic-methods/herbal-parasite-management/

 

[Goatgirl47]

@Southern by choice, @Goat Whisperer & @Latestarter - I am not bent on treating my goats' worms with natural remedies. If it's necessary, then I will use chemical dewormer.

This is a goat dewormer I've used before with my goats when I saw worms in their poop (I know it's not natural ):

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/dumor-goat-dewormer-3-lb?cm_vc=-10005

@babsbag, Clover was dark brown like Lulu & Annie when she was a kid, and then she lightened up a lot as she got older. So you're saying that even as kids Alpine's aren't that color brown?

And we do have a microscope and slides...

 

[babsbag]

They can be brown and white, like this.

But this one is really a broken Chamoisee. They can also be any color Pied or spotted. I have some brown and white does in my herd, but I also have Togg 3 generations back so it never surprises me.

ADGA tells me that an Alpine can be any color pattern EXCEPT solid white or Togg brown, which is solid brown with the white ears, face strips, rump patch, legs.

So your one little girl is Pied and the other ??? But it doesn't matter unless you are showing or selling for breeding. If you try to register her you may want to talk to ADGA and ask them, maybe she should be registered as recorded grade. But then her future offspring would be Grade as well, no matter their color.

I am just curious where the color came from. If you have her papers have you looked at her pedigree? Is there a Togg back there somewhere?

They are still stinkin' adorable but I have a soft spot for baby Toggs...their milk...not quite so much.