feeding hay

[dcullon]

I have had goats sense the early spring. I'm still learning. I have read and was also told that high alfalfa hay is bad for wethers. That a good grassy hay is best. I live in R.I. and have been buying the best hay out there. They are all doing great so far. They are living with 3 ewes. They are all eating sheep complete grain. It has the ammomium chloride in it . I had tried a goat feed once and one of my boys had a blocked urethea. So I went back to the sheep complete and he has never had a problem again. they are 7 and 8 month old.
Any imputs would be great. Trying to learn all I can.
Debbie

 

[ksalvagno]

A good grass hay should be fine. But the goats do need goat minerals. You will want to balance out the calcium/phosphorus which should be 2:1. Also goats need copper so the mineral should have copper in it too. The copper is bad for sheep so you will want to keep the sheep out of it.

 

[cmjust0]

I have had goats sense the early spring. I'm still learning. I have read and was also told that high alfalfa hay is bad for wethers. That a good grassy hay is best.

Alfalfa and other legume hay is high in calcium. Grass hay is high in phosphorus. Too much phosphorus and/or not enough calcium can lead to urinary calculi.

That said, I disagree that grassy hay is best...but not vehemently so. I tend to believe it would be highly unusual to see a goat with UC that wasn't also on high-ish levels of grain.. There's also some evidence that the simple act of making saliva rids the body of phosphorus, so the phosphorus taken in from hay may be somewhat self-limiting..

Still...I'd try to feed a grass/legume mix, if possible. Alfalfa, clover, lespedeza, something with at least a decent amount of calcium. Better safe than sorry.

I live in R.I. and have been buying the best hay out there. They are all doing great so far. They are living with 3 ewes. They are all eating sheep complete grain. It has the ammomium chloride in it . I had tried a goat feed once and one of my boys had a blocked urethea. So I went back to the sheep complete and he has never had a problem again. they are 7 and 8 month old.
Any imputs would be great. Trying to learn all I can.
Debbie

Was the goat feed mixed 2:1, Ca, and did it also have ammonium chloride added? Was it textured feed, or pelleted? If it was textured, did your UC boy "cherry pick" the whole grains out? Do you boys have 24/7 access to clean water? Were you feeding a large volume of the goat grain?

The above isn't an indictment of any kind, btw.. Just pointing out that there are a lot of reasons why a buck or wether can get UC.. On the other hand, the "stones" of UC are almost always the same thing in goats -- struvite. They're also known as MAP stones...magnesium ammonium phosphate.

Think of a pouring salt in a glass of water.. You pour a little in, stir, and the salt dissolves. A little more, stir, and again it dissolves.. If you keep doing that, though, the salt will eventually stop dissolving because the solution has become saturated with salt. The salt just goes to the bottom and sits.

Typically, with UC, the urine is alkaline (possible bacterial infection or metabolic condition) and/or becomes saturated with phosphorus, magnesium, and ammonia.. Instead of the the three staying in the urine as a solution, they form crystals. The crystals -- sandy and abrasive -- eventually begin making their way into the urethra where they may cause an obstruction either by collecting and physically blocking the flow of urine, or by irritating the urethra and causing enough inflammation to prevent the flow of urine. Or quite often both, so definitely treat for both.. The vet's not having treated for inflammation quickly enough almost cost me a buckling, so definitely treat for inflammation.

As for prevention...calcium helps the body absorb phosphorus into the bloodstream instead of excreting it through the urine. If you can get the phosphorus into the bloodstream instead of passing it straight into the urine, it's helpful. Kinda like not adding too much salt to that glass. That's why most goat formulas are mixed 2:1 Ca, to ensure that there's enough calcium in the grain to carry the phosphorus into the bloodstream. IT'S NOT FAIL-SAFE, but it's certainly helpful.

Of course, the other way to keep that salt dissolving is to add more water to the glass.. That is to say, keep your goats drinking plenty of water. Salt licks and loose mineral set out beside clean water goes a long way toward this end.

The only other thing I'd advise -- and this isn't something you hear much about with goats and UC -- is to keep the boys away from supplemental magnesium. Minerals labeled "Spring" or "Hi-Mag" are WAAAAAAY high in magnesium to prevent a condition called "grass tetany" or "grass staggers" in cattle, which is just another name for hypomagnesemia...low blood magnesium. My advice would be DO NOT feed spring or hi-mag mineral to male goats.


Wow....I wrote a lot there..