Going to look at puppys on the 16th!! Pictures up #34 :D
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Shelly May
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If you can Afford to feed them (ONLY) don't do this if you can't. LGD dogs are always better in pairs,
Hopefully the breeder will already have them exposed to live stock at around 4-5 weeks old, as my
puppies started walking and trying to follow momma when she went out in the pasture (from the barn
where puppies where born) they the puppies would try to follow her, if they got scared they would
run or waddle back to barn, even at 4-5 weeks old, they quickly learned that sheep where nothing to
be afraid of, if momma isn't scared then we don't have to be scared. they would run right between the
the sheeps legs at 6 weeks old and run in the pasture and play. We never bring the LGD in house, if
they are guard dogs they need to stay with livestock. We have 5 and we love them all, they are fed
as much as they want, they have all the Vet care they need, but we treat them like LIVESTOCK, they
get a hello and food and water and a pat on the head or scratch behind the ear then we leave them,
this might sound harsh, but we want them to BOND with livestock and learn to protect them, not become
pets to people, This is IMPORTANT if your dogs bond with your livestock, then you have less or NO
problems with dogs getting out of pastures, as they do not want to leave there livestock group or flock
they will want to stay with them. Do you understand what I am saying, the dogs become part of the
flock and if the stock stays in the fence the dogs will too. LGD dogs are big dogs, as they grow lets say at
6 months old my weighed 75 lbs at this age, they want to play and rough house and because of there size
they need something big to play with. Alot of people have problems with the dogs jumping and play bitting
there livestock and they want to get rid of them ASAP thinking they are bad and most be in that line of
breeding. Not true this is where 2 pups comes in, if you get two then they have each other to rough house
with and play with and burn off energy. I want to mention that I sell Registered breeding stock and I have
visitors come to the farm alot. My dogs are not mean to humans even with the little attention they get from
us, they love visitors (IN THE DAY TIME) extra scratches that day. At night you would swear they where going
to eat you. Sorry for rambeling just wanted you to know someone elses opinion.
Hopefully the breeder will already have them exposed to live stock at around 4-5 weeks old, as my
puppies started walking and trying to follow momma when she went out in the pasture (from the barn
where puppies where born) they the puppies would try to follow her, if they got scared they would
run or waddle back to barn, even at 4-5 weeks old, they quickly learned that sheep where nothing to
be afraid of, if momma isn't scared then we don't have to be scared. they would run right between the
the sheeps legs at 6 weeks old and run in the pasture and play. We never bring the LGD in house, if
they are guard dogs they need to stay with livestock. We have 5 and we love them all, they are fed
as much as they want, they have all the Vet care they need, but we treat them like LIVESTOCK, they
get a hello and food and water and a pat on the head or scratch behind the ear then we leave them,
this might sound harsh, but we want them to BOND with livestock and learn to protect them, not become
pets to people, This is IMPORTANT if your dogs bond with your livestock, then you have less or NO
problems with dogs getting out of pastures, as they do not want to leave there livestock group or flock
they will want to stay with them. Do you understand what I am saying, the dogs become part of the
flock and if the stock stays in the fence the dogs will too. LGD dogs are big dogs, as they grow lets say at
6 months old my weighed 75 lbs at this age, they want to play and rough house and because of there size
they need something big to play with. Alot of people have problems with the dogs jumping and play bitting
there livestock and they want to get rid of them ASAP thinking they are bad and most be in that line of
breeding. Not true this is where 2 pups comes in, if you get two then they have each other to rough house
with and play with and burn off energy. I want to mention that I sell Registered breeding stock and I have
visitors come to the farm alot. My dogs are not mean to humans even with the little attention they get from
us, they love visitors (IN THE DAY TIME) extra scratches that day. At night you would swear they where going
to eat you. Sorry for rambeling just wanted you to know someone elses opinion.
Southern by choice
Herd Master
It isn't a matter of the LGD pup being afraid of livestock, that's silly. No offense. The issue is a goat ,sheep, or any other livestock animal injuring an 8wk old pup. The adult Kiko's that came to our farm had only been around herding dogs to bring them up to the barn. These goats were terrified. Our pups were already 7 months old, the kikos did try to kill the dogs. When these pups were 8 weeks, no problem-except for the fact the nigerians would would pound into them too until they adjusted. The goats that is. All the goats here are fine will our 4 LGD's 2 teams, Our dogs are bonded to the goats but only a few goats really love their charges.Shelly May said:
I agree with not raising an LGD in the house, but house time does not prevent the bog from bonding with the livestock or doing its job. These dogs are extremely intelligent, and yes they steal your heart and all that. I have one that I have had many escapades with-my doing of course, but I knew that. Yet no matter what 20 minutes in the house and the dog stands to the top of the door....he wants back to his field. Two of our dogs could care less about house time.
I also want to say how you've raised your guys, I don't think is cruel/harsh/neglectful at all. There is that element of not every dog is a "pet". Doesn't mean you love them any less or care for the any less.
Dogs are dogs, LGD's are not going to have hundreds of years of breed trait history and instinct all go out of its brain because it comes in the house for a few minutes. I respect your opinion but people also need to be real. I've worked with hundreds of breeds of dogs etc (professionally). If you can "ruin" an LGD with a few minutes of house time then you started out with a messed up dog.
BTW- We have 3 Pyr's and an Anatolian and a GSD- that doesn't kill our livestock. Most "LGD" people would say GSD's they will kill your livestock, and they would defend that statement to the death.
Shelly May
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Southern by choice, did you read the part about hopefully the breeder will expose the puppies to
the livestock before they pick there pup up at 8 weeks old, the momma dog will teach the livestock
not to Charge her puppies when they come out to the pasture with a quick grawl or snap at them
with no real harm to the livestock, just warnings. the buyer of the pup has already decided to put
the pup up in a pen for its own protection as it is still small, but pups who are not exposed to livestock
young. And hope that man will protect them will be scared of them and look for man as protection. thus
starting the dog off wrong. I have had 3 litters now and all have been RAISED with livestock. running
free even at 5-6 weeks old I have never had one stepped on. I have even seen my sheep jump or the
pups to avoid stepping on them. The buyer is going to pen the pup up until their livestock gets used
to the pup, So as I see it this is not even a issue on there farm. Its amazing how animals of different
breeds bond to each other if they are suppose to. For example I raise one pig a year to slaughter and
put in my freezer every year. I buy the pig as a piglet and keep it in the barn for a couple of weeks and
get it to know what feeding time is ect. Then I turn the piglet loose with sheep, and before you know it
the pig Bonds with the sheep and now the pig thinks its a sheep and comes to the feed area everyday
at feed time when called to eat pig food seperate from sheep and their food and then turned back out
it runs straight for its buddies the sheep. So with less interaction from people animals bone to each other.
the livestock before they pick there pup up at 8 weeks old, the momma dog will teach the livestock
not to Charge her puppies when they come out to the pasture with a quick grawl or snap at them
with no real harm to the livestock, just warnings. the buyer of the pup has already decided to put
the pup up in a pen for its own protection as it is still small, but pups who are not exposed to livestock
young. And hope that man will protect them will be scared of them and look for man as protection. thus
starting the dog off wrong. I have had 3 litters now and all have been RAISED with livestock. running
free even at 5-6 weeks old I have never had one stepped on. I have even seen my sheep jump or the
pups to avoid stepping on them. The buyer is going to pen the pup up until their livestock gets used
to the pup, So as I see it this is not even a issue on there farm. Its amazing how animals of different
breeds bond to each other if they are suppose to. For example I raise one pig a year to slaughter and
put in my freezer every year. I buy the pig as a piglet and keep it in the barn for a couple of weeks and
get it to know what feeding time is ect. Then I turn the piglet loose with sheep, and before you know it
the pig Bonds with the sheep and now the pig thinks its a sheep and comes to the feed area everyday
at feed time when called to eat pig food seperate from sheep and their food and then turned back out
it runs straight for its buddies the sheep. So with less interaction from people animals bone to each other.
Southern by choice
Herd Master
I wanted to add something but not really edit.
When I re-read this it did sound a little "aggressive".
1. I really do not mean it that way...AT ALL!
2. I only wish one of my pyrs (most people on here know which one) WOULD live in the house! Although my one pyr had a bad injury and did live in the house for almost a month...nope there is no keeping from his "job".
3. There are a lot of LGD's (pyr's especially) that are in rescues. These dogs are coming right off the farms, some because of foreclosed farms, some because the people could no longer afford their livestock etc. - Bottom line is these dogs are NOT getting placed because they have been raised in the manner in which you suggest..and as I already stated, there is nothing wrong with that, but these dogs are not as adoptable or adaptable. Even going to an LGD home , these are not their animals and do not always "bond" with the new herd. They are so un-used to people very few are willing to take them on. Search the rescue sights and you'll see what I mean.
4. Exposing your LGD to other experiences can be a benefit. I groom all my pyrs, intoduce them to car rides, move them around to other fields and many other things. When a vet does need to see your dog these things are important, what about when they need to be transported for something like OFA/PennHIP x-rays, which I assumed you do if you breed. None of these things have prevented my LGD's from being LGD's.
Somehow toooooo many people are under the impression if you don't stick them in the field and kind of "leave them alone" that they are somehow going to ruin the dog. I strongly disagree and I also think it sets the relationship with the LGD and human in an iffy place. All LGD's must know the human master is the Alpha- always. Without any more than a pat on the head your (NOT meaning "yours")LGD may believe it is the Alpha. Witnessed this recently, LGD male...female LGD in heat, owner went to seperate him from her and the dog (18 months) and the dog went nuts on the lady, it was very serious. He was inches from her face, she had to back out of the barn slowly. Because of children being also on the property the dog had to be put down.
Livestock can kill pups!
When I re-read this it did sound a little "aggressive".
1. I really do not mean it that way...AT ALL!
2. I only wish one of my pyrs (most people on here know which one) WOULD live in the house! Although my one pyr had a bad injury and did live in the house for almost a month...nope there is no keeping from his "job".
3. There are a lot of LGD's (pyr's especially) that are in rescues. These dogs are coming right off the farms, some because of foreclosed farms, some because the people could no longer afford their livestock etc. - Bottom line is these dogs are NOT getting placed because they have been raised in the manner in which you suggest..and as I already stated, there is nothing wrong with that, but these dogs are not as adoptable or adaptable. Even going to an LGD home , these are not their animals and do not always "bond" with the new herd. They are so un-used to people very few are willing to take them on. Search the rescue sights and you'll see what I mean.
4. Exposing your LGD to other experiences can be a benefit. I groom all my pyrs, intoduce them to car rides, move them around to other fields and many other things. When a vet does need to see your dog these things are important, what about when they need to be transported for something like OFA/PennHIP x-rays, which I assumed you do if you breed. None of these things have prevented my LGD's from being LGD's.
Somehow toooooo many people are under the impression if you don't stick them in the field and kind of "leave them alone" that they are somehow going to ruin the dog. I strongly disagree and I also think it sets the relationship with the LGD and human in an iffy place. All LGD's must know the human master is the Alpha- always. Without any more than a pat on the head your (NOT meaning "yours")LGD may believe it is the Alpha. Witnessed this recently, LGD male...female LGD in heat, owner went to seperate him from her and the dog (18 months) and the dog went nuts on the lady, it was very serious. He was inches from her face, she had to back out of the barn slowly. Because of children being also on the property the dog had to be put down.
Livestock can kill pups!
Shelly May
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You can find these horrible stories with ALL Breeds of dogs, Pit Bulls are always getting
a bad rap by the general public. Check any adoption center and you will find millions of
dogs out there in the same boat. The sad stories are not what these people are asking
you for. Just some advise on how to start the new pup out, what they do after the pup
has learned that guarding livestock is the main objective then later they can add other
things. PS my LGD's ride in the sheep trailer to the vet and love it.
a bad rap by the general public. Check any adoption center and you will find millions of
dogs out there in the same boat. The sad stories are not what these people are asking
you for. Just some advise on how to start the new pup out, what they do after the pup
has learned that guarding livestock is the main objective then later they can add other
things. PS my LGD's ride in the sheep trailer to the vet and love it.
Southern by choice
Herd Master
You missed the point. It's not about sad stories or anything else. I personally am not a big fan of shelters or rescues and yeah I'll probably get slammed on here for that.
To say that a goat would not or could not kill a LGD pup is ridiculous, and that has NOTHING to do with the pup being introduced to livestock by the breeder. This is about teaching the goat not the dog. Never seen an LGD pup afraid and need to be protected in the way you are suggesting. I will definitely "protect" if you want to call it that, my pup from being gored by my Nigerian Dwarf's sharp pointy horns at 8 wks. old. The one Kiko-big girl, huge horns, will never bond with the dogs ever, and if they get within a foot of her they get slammed but they are well over 110 lbs now(dogs). They also are submissive to the livestock as they are suppose to be. Do they still protect her absolutely. And yes, mine were all raised outside from the start.
Honestly I think in many ways we are saying the same things and I don't want this to end up being another shut down nasty thread!
Wording on a keyboard doesn't always convey the tone.
I want you to know I'm really not being combatative
and with leaving this on what I hope to be a good note... do you do any CHIC testing on your LGD's? ( I guess that depends on what type LGD's you breed) What do you breed. If it's Pyr's I have a question you might be able to help me with but I could always pm you, if your ok with that.
To say that a goat would not or could not kill a LGD pup is ridiculous, and that has NOTHING to do with the pup being introduced to livestock by the breeder. This is about teaching the goat not the dog. Never seen an LGD pup afraid and need to be protected in the way you are suggesting. I will definitely "protect" if you want to call it that, my pup from being gored by my Nigerian Dwarf's sharp pointy horns at 8 wks. old. The one Kiko-big girl, huge horns, will never bond with the dogs ever, and if they get within a foot of her they get slammed but they are well over 110 lbs now(dogs). They also are submissive to the livestock as they are suppose to be. Do they still protect her absolutely. And yes, mine were all raised outside from the start.
Honestly I think in many ways we are saying the same things and I don't want this to end up being another shut down nasty thread!
Wording on a keyboard doesn't always convey the tone.
I want you to know I'm really not being combatative
and with leaving this on what I hope to be a good note... do you do any CHIC testing on your LGD's? ( I guess that depends on what type LGD's you breed) What do you breed. If it's Pyr's I have a question you might be able to help me with but I could always pm you, if your ok with that. Shelly May
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BlueMoonFarms
Sorry if we are in disagreement with each other (me and Southern by choice)
Southern by choice no aggression taken or given just exspressing our opinions Right!
so you asked what type of pyrenees I raise, Just good healthy guard dogs, Not for show
or breeding stock, at two days old they are taken to vet to have due claws removed, and
weight take and general health exam, then they go back for shots, and worming if they need
it, then booster shots and weight again, and general health exam. They will leave the farm
to new owners with puppy books with all recorded info from my vet with their contact info
on book. Just so you know the pictures that Ellie May put on here of her 2 pyrenees puppies
CAME FROM MY FARM, BORN AND RAISED. See how they are not frieghtened of the chickens,
well I exposed them to chickens and sheep when they were babies. Now she has a good start
on raising her new puppies with her sheep and chickens. Sorry you have Some real mean goats
I believe I would on my farm after a FAIR TIME of interation CULL those goats that try to kill the
dogs. My sheep know that the dogs are alfa, and the dogs know I am alfa to them.
Sorry if we are in disagreement with each other (me and Southern by choice)
Southern by choice no aggression taken or given just exspressing our opinions Right!
so you asked what type of pyrenees I raise, Just good healthy guard dogs, Not for show
or breeding stock, at two days old they are taken to vet to have due claws removed, and
weight take and general health exam, then they go back for shots, and worming if they need
it, then booster shots and weight again, and general health exam. They will leave the farm
to new owners with puppy books with all recorded info from my vet with their contact info
on book. Just so you know the pictures that Ellie May put on here of her 2 pyrenees puppies
CAME FROM MY FARM, BORN AND RAISED. See how they are not frieghtened of the chickens,
well I exposed them to chickens and sheep when they were babies. Now she has a good start
on raising her new puppies with her sheep and chickens. Sorry you have Some real mean goats
I believe I would on my farm after a FAIR TIME of interation CULL those goats that try to kill the
dogs. My sheep know that the dogs are alfa, and the dogs know I am alfa to them.
Southern by choice
Herd Master
Just 3 more days Blue Moon! 
:bun :bun :bun
:bun :bun :bun- Thread starter
- #20
BlueMoonFarms
True BYH Addict
Dang! How on earth did I miss this disagreement?
Wow, my e-mail didnt want me to read it i guess lol, but anyway differences of opinion is always to be expected
Only 3 days left and I get to go see the babys! They have been born and raised in the barn, with the herd I assume. The pups are massive little fuzz balls!! I cant wait to see them.
Wow, my e-mail didnt want me to read it i guess lol, but anyway differences of opinion is always to be expected
Only 3 days left and I get to go see the babys! They have been born and raised in the barn, with the herd I assume. The pups are massive little fuzz balls!! I cant wait to see them.
