Help With Ram

[Britgoes2market]

We brought in a Ram from out of state and were so terribly excited to have his lambs land this Spring. We put him in with my girls in July (I REALLY wanted December lambs as we lambed last December and it was beautiful! Warm (ish) no drama and everyone thrived!) and pulled him the end of September. Only one of my ewes have lambed last month, and it appears as though I may not be getting February lambs as none of my girls are bagging up.

I'll admit this is a first. I'm not super sure what could have happened? Our summer was very mild, so I'm hesitant to think that heat would have rendered him sterile. However we have the one set of twins...... No....we never did do a sperm check.

In this case, what have you experienced breeders done in the past? Should I give this ram another go for next breeding season? Put him with my girls now and change breeding season? Though there is no bag growth, or change in their vulvas could I still possibly expect lambs?

 

[Ridgetop]

What breed are the ram and ewes? What part of the country are you in? Where did the ram come from?

If your breed of sheep are strictly seasonal breeders (most wool and English breeds) the ram may not have caught them when they were cycling or he was fertile. Seasonally breeding rams don't go into rut until September. If you live in an area with late summer heat through September, he may not have been fertile. The same goes for the ewes. Seasonal breeding ewes will not start cycling until September-December. People producing earlyJanuary lambs for shows and fairs often use fertility implants to get the ewes to cycle early enough in the year. Putting your ram in with the ewes in July through September means you were putting him in with the ewes during the hottest months of the year which means the ewes may not have been cycling and the rams may not have been fertile.

In addition, the location or orientation of the sheep pastures can also have a bearing on estus and rut cycles. An eastern facing pasture with shade on the western side can trick the sheep's bodies into thinking it is later in the year than it actually is. Sheep or goats in an eastern pasture with shade from 1 pm through the rest of the afternoon can cause them to cycle sooner than animals in a western pasture or one without shade of any kind.

Nutrition and health can also affect breeding potential and estrus. Putting a "catch up" ram in with the ewes 2-3 weeks after removing the first ram can make sure you get a lamb crop since he will catch any open ewes and make sure that they settle. Depending on the number of ewes to breed, you may have better luck using a breeding harness and marking crayons on th ram to make sure he is breeding the ewes. If most of the ewes are marked you can see if they produce lambs. If your ewes are marked and the ram does not produce lambs, then you shoud have a sperm count done on the new ram and contact the breeder, if necessary, for a replacement ram.

Again what breed are your sheep and where do you live?

 

[Britgoes2market]

Thank you for your input Ridgetop! It's very thought provoking. Perhaps I set my Ram up for failure.

I'm in Idaho, and I have the Tunis, which is a wool breed, however it's supposed to be an out of season breeder. Like I had mentioned above, all my girls delivered in December last year. We brought our Ram in from Missouri.

Thanks again for your input!

 

[Baymule]

Maybe the difference in climate and/or day length had effects too.

I look at it like this; this animal has been kidnapped! Taken from it's safe, happy home where everything is known and familiar and brought HERE to a strange place. That doesn't effect a lot of animals, but for some it is a set back. Parasites vary from farm to farm, different water, bacteria, grass, and so on. It might be a good idea to have the ram tested for fertility, just so you know.

I've gone from east Texas to Tennessee 3 times to buy rams. 2 of them were picked up and rolled into the back of the truck with a camper shell on top of it. Then a 12-13 hard drive home. Those rams were unruffled and jumped off the tailgate.......GIRLS!!! One of them, @Ridgetop and her husband decided they should go, so we hitched up the trailer to their truck and off we went.

Take a step back, examine the little details, looking for something that maybe isn't quite right. I would start with a fertility test and take it from there. How old is your ram? Has he been bred before?

 

[Britgoes2market]

That's an interesting perspective too Baymule. This was his first breeding season. We brought him home as a lamb.

 

[farmerjan]

All of the above. I would also add, we have cattle.. never used to do fertility tests... bought the best bulls we could afford which weren't the best... worked our way up from there...
I would not use an animal unless he has a fertility test now... As you found out... it can make for a disastrous loss of production/babies. We call it BSE... breeding soundness exam. For us with cattle, it is 1 baby per year... 9 month pregnancy... too much time LOST if not pregnant. We have 2 breeding groups, spring and fall, and will roll an open animal into the next group so as to only lose 6 months.... but it is still a loss of income.
Cattle are not as much seasonal breeders as sheep.

How young was the ram and how many ewes? The rule of thumb with cattle is no more cattle than the number of months old... so a 15-18 month old BULL should not have more than 15-18 cows MAX... for his first season. We will buy a bull at 15-18 months and seldom ever put him with cows for breeding until he is 2... we will hold him for a bit, get used to his disposition, him get used to our handling etc...
Bought a bull in Dec... 16 months... he got put with 8 young open cows... needed a place to put him, and needed these cows to get caught... they had been checked open... we will know if he got them settled...when we preg check in the spring... He was bought with a guaranteed BSE..... as are nearly all bulls sold today at these breeding bull sales.

If a particular ewe is a bully, maybe she intimidated and beat the young ram up.... doesn't take much to do that to a young ram... no obvious signs, he just will stay out of her "radar"...
DID he get injured???? it happens....

Breeding harness/crayon is a very good idea to see if he is even marking the ewes.

I think that a BSE is in order first off....

 

[Britgoes2market]

As far as I can tell he is sound, and our pasture is in our backyard, so we are able to keep a pretty close eye on him and the girls. It's just him and my 5 ewes. He would have been a year old by the time we put him out with them, so I'm assuming he would have gotten the job done.

I do appreciate all the advice and food for thought. We are still debating on bringing in a second ram to do the "clean up." However, with this particular breed there isn't a whole lot to choose from except from out of state-which makes things a little more particular tricky.

I will probably get a hold of my vet and see what his sperm count is like and go from there. His sire won best of show in his state.

I think whoever mentioned us pulling him in September was probably what did it. Tough lessons to learn! Thank you all!

 

[Baymule]

September, he was just getting warmed up.

Summer solstice is June 21, the days start getting shorter. That will trigger breeding season but it is usually too hot.

 

[Ridgetop]

. I would start with a fertility test and take it from there. How old is your ram? Has he been bred before?

Definitely get a fertility test first. If he was over 6 months old the breeder should have gotten a Brucellosis test done. Most states require a clean Brucellosis test before moving any breeding ram over 6 months old to another state.

Let us know the results of the BSE.