infertile heifers (added pic of our bottle baby)

[dragonmorgan]

We have a mixed herd of about 35 cows and a charolais bull. Weve noticed a few of our heifers arent calving. One has grown into a very large heifer. Much larger than her mother and even the bull. The majority of our cows are pretty old (some almost 25 yrs) and small so we cant get large bulls. Another was found abandoned by the mother and was almost dead but DH was able to feed tube her back to health. Shes around 7yrs old now. Neither of them have calved and we arent sure why. Could the bull be too small to breed with the big one? And I heard that bottle fed calves are at risk of bein infertile, is that true? We have a few others who have a history of losing their calves. Could something be causing these calves not to survive? Im new to farm life and although these cows belong to DHs family, he hasnt had a major part in it until recently so we are tryin to fix the problems with it. We finally got rid of the bull and Im hoping that he was the reason for the lost calves. He was kept with the cows full time and Im afraid he managed to breed some of his daughters. The big heifer is one of his and because shes so big she bullied him and even our new bull, who is also small. We are bottle feeding a calf right now and Im worried that she could end up being like the other bottle fed heifer and we cant afford to have so many cows not calving but since these 2 are hand raised we dont want to get rid of them because they are like pets.

 

[Cricket]

I would have the vet look at the heifers--they could have cysts that are preventing them from breeding. I've never heard of bottle feeding leading to infertility? On dairies the calves are all bottle fed. Are your cows overweight? Were they born with a twin?

I don't know about beef breeds, but the dairy farm I work on has one big bull and one little (younger) bull, and the size of the cow doesn't seem to deter the little one. The parts all manage to match up (tho' he has hurt his leg falling off afterwards--not a graceful landing!)

I would think that inbreeding could lead to the cows aborting, but don't think it would happen in one or two generations. Must be hard to jump into farming with a whole set of issues already there! Good luck! I'm sure someone with more knowledge will chime in soon!

 

[WildRoseBeef]

Sounds like you've got some culling to do. And it also sounds like you need to do some better management practices, since if you leave the bull in with the heifers he can breed them too early and they will be pregnant too early or slough off a calf and become cystic. It's not the bottle-feeding that causes infertility, it's the management practices, the breeding practices and even how you feed them that will cause problems. It could also be reproductive abnormalities that will cause heifers to not breed, due to various reasons like inbreeding.

Incidence of diseases such as Leptospiridosis, Bovine Viral Diarrhea and Trichomoniasis (among other STD (Sexually Transmitted Disease)-type diseases in cattle) will cause a lot of problems in your herd. You really need to tighten up the belt and get ALL your cattle (cows, heifers, bulls, calves) tested via blood-test. And yes, you should start putting some animals on the cull list and shipping them off. Get rid of those blasted free-loaders as they're doing nothing more than sucking money out of your pockets. I'm surprised you've just noticed that one of your heifers haven't calved in the past 7 years. She should've been gone 7 years ago! The ones that are not breeding need to GO, they shouldn't be staying.

But really, I've no idea about your herd, never seen them, don't even know your breeding, feeding or health practices or anything like that, but I really think you just need to let go of some cattle you've been keeping for much longer than you should have. Quite often it's not the bull's fault that the cows haven't given birth or have given birth to dead calves, often it's the people who are looking after them that are at fault.

Sorry, to say that, and no offense intended, but that's life and that's JMO.

 

[dragonmorgan]

I totally understand. Its actually DHs dad and granddads hobby farm but theyve recently become unable to care for them so weve stepped up. Weve tried helpin out where we could over the past couple years but its been tough (cant tell them anything because they know it all ). Most of our time lately has been spent tryin to fix the fence which is a saggy, barely electric, one-strand barb wire fence along a highway. The bulls theyve gotten in the past were always whatever was cheap and usually came from other farm friends. We finally got rid of the old one they had and they bought another (from a family friend) but we had to get rid of him too because he kept escapin on the highway (he flat foot jumped the steel gate to our catch pen). Me and DH will be in charge of gettin the next and we are gonna get a good bull. Feed around here has been scarce since we went through a tough drought this summer and had to use our winter reserve of hay. Most of the cattle farms around here had to so now theres a shortage of good hay and DHs family doesnt have alot of money since this farm isnt used for income so theyve been buyin cheap hay (which is also about to change now that we stepped in). We do give them bags of feed and pellets also. We arent exactly made of money either tho so we are havin to do a little at a time. Weve got our work cut out for us for sure.

The 7yr old heifer was the one DH bottle-fed so shes more of a pet which is why shes still around. The other heifer is still here because we are keepin her to butcher (eventually) not to mention she acts like a bull so shes our substitute until we get another to keep the herd safe. I didnt know that cysts and stuff could keep them from calving so those 2 will be first on the list for the vet to check out. If it turns out they will never calf then we will probably get rid of them both since we plan to thin down the herd some anyway. We do have one that got pregnant (too young IMO) and we will have her checked too to make sure it didnt mess anything up in here. She had a good mama and Id hate to not get any calves from her. Im not sure of all the details about how the cows were taken care of so Im tryin to figure out what all we need to do to stop this farm from bein a non-refunding piggy bank. Once we get the major problems taken care of I think it will be easier to address the smaller problems.

Ive never delt with cows and there is so much stuff that needs doin around here and I dont know where to start. I guess the first order of business is to get some better hay to the cows and take those heifers to the vet to be checked out. Thanks for all the advice. Its much appreciated.

 

[goodhors]

I would have you think again, get the Vet out as the FIRST order of business. Go over the
cows, check for all those things mentioned, with perhaps a swab for checking infections inside
the females. Bull trying to breed them, could have gotten dirt or infection started, so they
can't get bred or carry a calf at this point. Are the cattle tagged? Stand beside the Vet and
make notes against each one's tag number. Age, breeding condition, what she has that needs
to be treated or not. How far along is she if bred?

Talk to the Vet about culling, so he can state whether treating is worth the cost, considering
cow/heifer age, breeding ability, as he is working on the animal. Then when animal is released,
you can aim it at the sell pen or treatment pen.

If you can get the Vet out the day before the local Sale Barn sells, you can haul the culls off and
not put anything more into them IMMEDIATELY. What cash you get back, goes into the other
cattle expense of Vet and treatments. They are gone, no chance to damage stuff, get damaged
or need more hay. You folks can be prepared to haul them right off with trailer on hand.

Not sure what you have in panels, squeeze chutes, but if you know things will happen on
Day X, you could borrow or fix things to be ready ahead. Have the cattle contained BEFORE
the Vet gets there, to be worked on. If cattle have not been caught and confined regularly, you
can practice doing this before the Vet day. Cattle will adapt with a bit of feed reward for coming
into the yard, getting the gates closed behind them for some corral time practices. Practice running
them thru the chutes, squeeze gate, just to know they CAN, saves you LOTS of time later on.
Won't be so wild and wooly, if they have done the routine a number of times, before you NEED them
to do it for the culling. Practice seperating them, sorting them, so they CAN be dealt with, no PERSON
gets harmed in the process, no damaged cattle either if possible.

Cattle just hate routine changes, so make this corralling part of the daily routine! A number of times
thru the setup, should have most of them calmer, easier to deal with when the time comes for
needing them in the chutes.

If you expect any of the cattle to jump out, maybe halter and tied up, will keep them contained
to be loaded into the trailer for selling.

The more you can do ahead, will help keep cattle under control. Sounds like you will have to be
hard in the culling, unless Vet finds a reason the heifers didn't get bred. Even then, weigh the cost
to cure, against expenses. You can go get BETTER, breedable heifers, who even might be a bit tame,
for what you sell the others for. You would have less to deal with, better quality animals. Less cost
to keep fewer, easier to manage and feed.

For cattle managing, you have to have a plan. Just jumping in and trying to fix neglected situation is
going to keep you folks chasing your tails. Never will get caught up. Feeding cattle of no quality is
a waste of money. They don't return in calves or meat, in short order, what you have put into them. Cow or breedable
heifer should be giving you a calf every year. If not, find out WHY! Then you fix or sell her. Cows are too
expensive to be kept as pets in most cases, no return for your money.

You also may want to look at improving the pasture with some fertilizers, reseeding, after getting a soil test. Grazing
does need fertilizers to keep producing, soil tests tell you how much of which products. You may need to be
adding minerals and improved feed to the diet, to have calves appear as expected!! Locally we have no Selenium
in our soil, which DIRECTLY affects the reproductive ability of ALL the Farm Animals. They NEED added Selenium,
other minerals to be good producers. NOT THEIR fault if they can't get bred without the Selenium!!

Good luck with your cattle. Get the Vet in quickly, save yourselves money on cattle that are not working for you.

STAY SAFE handling these unmanaged animals.

 

[dragonmorgan]

I never considered havin the vet out there and sorting out the culls in the same step. Thats def what we will do then. We def need to do some work on our catch pen since its pretty rickety and it doesnt have a real chute (or a head squeeze for that matter.) Hopefully this rainy weather will clear up this week and we can get out there and start makin stuff happen. Thanks for the suggestion. Its tough because even tho we are doin all the hard stuff for the cows they still technically belong to his dad so we are havin to convince him of all these changes too. Hes just so used to it bein a money pit that hes skeptical it can succeed and we are determined to make it work.

 

[WildRoseBeef]

I totally understand. Its actually DHs dad and granddads hobby farm but theyve recently become unable to care for them so weve stepped up. Weve tried helpin out where we could over the past couple years but its been tough (cant tell them anything because they know it all ). Most of our time lately has been spent tryin to fix the fence which is a saggy, barely electric, one-strand barb wire fence along a highway. The bulls theyve gotten in the past were always whatever was cheap and usually came from other farm friends. We finally got rid of the old one they had and they bought another (from a family friend) but we had to get rid of him too because he kept escapin on the highway (he flat foot jumped the steel gate to our catch pen). Me and DH will be in charge of gettin the next and we are gonna get a good bull. Feed around here has been scarce since we went through a tough drought this summer and had to use our winter reserve of hay. Most of the cattle farms around here had to so now theres a shortage of good hay and DHs family doesnt have alot of money since this farm isnt used for income so theyve been buyin cheap hay (which is also about to change now that we stepped in). We do give them bags of feed and pellets also. We arent exactly made of money either tho so we are havin to do a little at a time. Weve got our work cut out for us for sure.

The 7yr old heifer was the one DH bottle-fed so shes more of a pet which is why shes still around. The other heifer is still here because we are keepin her to butcher (eventually) not to mention she acts like a bull so shes our substitute until we get another to keep the herd safe. I didnt know that cysts and stuff could keep them from calving so those 2 will be first on the list for the vet to check out. If it turns out they will never calf then we will probably get rid of them both since we plan to thin down the herd some anyway. We do have one that got pregnant (too young IMO) and we will have her checked too to make sure it didnt mess anything up in here. She had a good mama and Id hate to not get any calves from her. Im not sure of all the details about how the cows were taken care of so Im tryin to figure out what all we need to do to stop this farm from bein a non-refunding piggy bank. Once we get the major problems taken care of I think it will be easier to address the smaller problems.

Ive never delt with cows and there is so much stuff that needs doin around here and I dont know where to start. I guess the first order of business is to get some better hay to the cows and take those heifers to the vet to be checked out. Thanks for all the advice. Its much appreciated.

IMHO, goodhors has some really good points. You need to start culling out the majority of the herd in order to keep costs down and allow for a lower stocking rate for you pastures especially with the drought you've had. You may need to cut down your herd of 35 to like 10. And that means having to say good-bye to that cow that's been bottle-raised by your hubby.

Make a plan. Steps should be:
1. Get the cattle used to or caught up in the catch-pen and working chute before the vet comes
2. Get the vet out ASAP and get him/her to do a physical on each animal. Ask the vet for tips on culling, herd health, nutrition, anything you can think of that you think the vet can answer for you
3. Make culling decisions. Cull based on the following:
- Conformation (udder, teeth, feet, etc.)
- Temperament (get rid of the crazy, wild or flighty cows)
- Fertility (get rid of the cows that are taking longer to get back into heat, and the heifers that won't breed back)
- Health (any tests positive for BVD, Lepto, Trich, IBR, PI3, etc., )
- Size (get rid of the animals too big for your tastes)
- Calf vigour, and weaning weights (calves that are crappy looking at weaning or less than 45% of it's dams weight should be taken into account and their dams culled)
- Feed conversion (cows that take more feed to keep should be culled)
- Mothering ability (consistently loses calf, difficult to mother up to calf, etc.)
- Milking ability (more is better than less, but be careful about selecting for lots of milk, as you don't have to make any dairy cows from your herd)
- Disrespectful of the fence
- (This list can go on and be a long one)
4. Consider getting rid of the bull and find a more docile, better-quality bull to improve your herd. Kudos for getting rid of those bulls that don't respect the fenceline, that's a good start to a good culling program, but you also need to remember that you will always get what you paid for in bulls.
5. Plan on shortening up the breeding/calving season from 365 days to 120 days, then next year to 90 days, then the next year ~65 days. Each shortened breeding period will catch the females that are coming up open (not bred), and give you merit to sell them. Prices are really high right now, so you'll get a fair amount of money if/when you sell some of your herd. Also make sure you separate the heifers that are too young to breed away from the main cow herd until they're old enough to breed. Do this at weaning.
6. Plan on implementing rotational grazing and better pasture management to lower costs for hay and feed. Select cows in your herd that are better for this, or purchase better-quality cows or heifers that are more adapted to a grass-only operation.
7. Renovate the fenceline, tear out all the old crap and put in a 4 or 5-wire barbed wire fenceline along the road. No use trying to fix the old one when it's beyond repair anyway!

You need to prioritize with your hubby what's most important to the ones that are the least important. Making plans, getting the vet out, culling and replacing the fence should be at the top of the list.

And ask tonnes of questions on here, there's no such thing as a stupid question!

 

[dragonmorgan]

Weve been doin alot of talkin about what all we want to do with the cows (especially after Ive been reading everyones advice) What we plan on doing is workin on the catch pen so that it will actually keep the cows in (I wish I could describe how rickity it really is. Its got a few telephone pole posts, and some t-posts holding it up. Some of the fence is hogwire fencing and some are those metal gates. Its patched together in alot of places and the fencing is held up my electirc fence wire tied around the posts or old recycled nails. The "chute" is just a couple sheets of hogfencing along one side with 2 big posts holding it up and when we finally manage to run one of the cows in it we have to put boards in front of and behind the cow and sometimes rope their heads to hold them still. ) So needless to say gettin an adaquate catch pen put up is priority #1. The pen is set up in a good spot between 2 of our fields so at least we already have that figured out. Hopefully we can rig up a better chute too since we cant afford a head squeeze right now (especially with upcoming vet bills). While we are working on that we are gonna put up a good 4+ strand barbed wire fence around one of our unused fields. After we enlist the help needed to get all that up we are gonna call in the vet and have her check all our cows. Any ones we are keeping will get moved to the newly fenced field (which is a field we usually grow our hay on so they should have plenty to eat) and the ones to be culled will go back into our smaller field so that when we are done we can run them back into the pen to sell or fatten up for the sale (depending on the vets diagnosis of them). I want to make sure we have a good place to put the cows once we decide which we are keeping. Since we dont have a bull yet Im not too worried about the cows. Once we decide which ones stay we want to be able to put them in a field with some good fencing. After they are there we are goin to work on the old fencing and get some rye or other stuff planted so that we can eventually move them back to the original field and keep the new field for weaned heifers not ready to breed and calves gettin ready for the sale.

Hopefully with the new set up it will be easier to keep track of which cows are calving on time and which are slow or arent calving to standards. That way itll be easier to decide which ones get to stay and which need to go. Then we can work on building the herd back up the right way.

 

[Bossroo]

I would immediately SELL off at least 10 of the 35 that are obviously not productive to save on time, labor, feed and Vet COSTS. These would be sold in any event without the added exenses especially under the drought and fence conditions. Then evaluate the rest to keep or sell. I would also consider AI for the breedable cows instead of buying a bull. This too will increase the quality of your replacement heifers immediately at very little cost instead of hoping that a new bull would. Good luck !

 

[jhm47]

I'd sell the entire bunch. Use the proceeds to buy back 10 - 15 virgin heifers. They will most likely be of much better breeding, and you won't have the worry of continuing the possibility of diseases like trich or lepto. You also won't have the expense and bother of the vet checks for the various STD's that could be causing your problems with infertility.

Save a little of the $$$ generated to invest in a decent and workable corral and handling chute. You will be safer, and the convenience of being able to work the cattle with minimal problems will quickly pay for it. Good Luck!!!