I see a lot of posts on here talking about giving Ivermectin as a wormer. Are you talking of the same Ivermectin like horses? I have a heck of a time around here finding wormer for my goats and end up buying the pellet brand and then getting something from the vet but it is not ivermectin. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a bunch.
Ivermectin
- Thread starter HartRice
- Start date
Yes...ivermectin. Most folks use the 1% injectable as a drench -- that is, given ORALLY -- at a rate of 3-4ml/100lbs for internal parasite control.
You should be aware, though, that there's pretty widespread parasite resistance to ivermectin at this point. I've used it for internal parasites before, and it still seemed to work OK for me, and I keep it around for external parasites...but lots of folks lost the use of Ivomec for internal parasites a long time ago.
Here's a quick primer on worming for ya...
There are three kinds of wormers:
1) Benzamidazoles, aka "white" wormers. These include Safe Guard, Valbazen, Synanthic, etc.. Safe Guard is probably the most commonly used, and as such, is now probably the most useless of all wormers out there. Some of the other white wormers may still work...I dunno. The one caveat I know of with white wormers is that you DON'T use Valbazen on bred does...they'll abort.
2) Macrolytic lactones, aka "clear" wormers. These include ivermectin (Ivomec), doramectin (Dectomax), moxidectin (Cydectin), etc.. They're generally regarded as being stronger than the white wormers, but as mentioned above...some of these, too, are losing their effectiveness. The latest wormer in my rotation has been Dectomax -- mostly because I don't know of anyone else around here who uses Dectomax on goats -- and it's done well for me. Also, lots of folks consider Cydectin to be the "nuclear option" with regard to wormers because it's the newest and probably the last of the clear wormers to lose its efficacy.. I personally know two people who have lost the use of it on their farms already.
3) Imidazothiazoles...there's no aka for these guys.
Pretty much, you're talking Levasole. Levasole is an old-school dewormer that cattle producers largely abandoned when Ivomec came out.. Levasole was losing its effect at the time, and Ivomec was newer, easier, cheaper, etc...so, for like 25 years, NOBODY used Levasole. Which means, for 25 years, internal parasites had time to forget they'd ever seen Levasole and lose their resistance to it.. Which, of course, generally means it's WAY DAMN EFFECTIVE these days, since most worms have never encountered it before... The margin of error with Levasole is much more narrow than with other dewormers, and since it's so strong, it's generally recommended to deworm first with something less powerful if you suspect a heavy parasite burden so as not to kill all the worms at once...which could kill the goat itself.
Here's the kicker about Levasole...you can't find it anywhere these days. There's some kind of supply problem; I've never been able to get a definitive answer on why or what caused it, but there is. If ever you see *any product* that contains Levamisole Hydrochloride, buy every bit you can..
4) Tetrahydropyrimidines, aka "pellet wormers." Includes pyrantel and morantel.. They have a similar mode of kill as levamisole, but my understanding is that they aren't *nearly* as strong or effective. I've never used them...when I worm, I want to know who gets what and how much of it, and you can't really do that by throwing out pellets. Plus...who wants to introduce a completely foreign feed to a goat just to deworm it?!?
So, there ya go.. Hope that helps.
ETA: Notice how I said "three kinds" and proceeded to list four.. Most lists you see lump 3 & 4 together, and I was gonna....but they're too dang different, IMHO. Forgot to change the "three" to a "four", though. 
You should be aware, though, that there's pretty widespread parasite resistance to ivermectin at this point. I've used it for internal parasites before, and it still seemed to work OK for me, and I keep it around for external parasites...but lots of folks lost the use of Ivomec for internal parasites a long time ago.
Here's a quick primer on worming for ya...
There are three kinds of wormers:
1) Benzamidazoles, aka "white" wormers. These include Safe Guard, Valbazen, Synanthic, etc.. Safe Guard is probably the most commonly used, and as such, is now probably the most useless of all wormers out there. Some of the other white wormers may still work...I dunno. The one caveat I know of with white wormers is that you DON'T use Valbazen on bred does...they'll abort.
2) Macrolytic lactones, aka "clear" wormers. These include ivermectin (Ivomec), doramectin (Dectomax), moxidectin (Cydectin), etc.. They're generally regarded as being stronger than the white wormers, but as mentioned above...some of these, too, are losing their effectiveness. The latest wormer in my rotation has been Dectomax -- mostly because I don't know of anyone else around here who uses Dectomax on goats -- and it's done well for me. Also, lots of folks consider Cydectin to be the "nuclear option" with regard to wormers because it's the newest and probably the last of the clear wormers to lose its efficacy.. I personally know two people who have lost the use of it on their farms already.
3) Imidazothiazoles...there's no aka for these guys.
Pretty much, you're talking Levasole. Levasole is an old-school dewormer that cattle producers largely abandoned when Ivomec came out.. Levasole was losing its effect at the time, and Ivomec was newer, easier, cheaper, etc...so, for like 25 years, NOBODY used Levasole. Which means, for 25 years, internal parasites had time to forget they'd ever seen Levasole and lose their resistance to it.. Which, of course, generally means it's WAY DAMN EFFECTIVE these days, since most worms have never encountered it before... The margin of error with Levasole is much more narrow than with other dewormers, and since it's so strong, it's generally recommended to deworm first with something less powerful if you suspect a heavy parasite burden so as not to kill all the worms at once...which could kill the goat itself.Here's the kicker about Levasole...you can't find it anywhere these days. There's some kind of supply problem; I've never been able to get a definitive answer on why or what caused it, but there is. If ever you see *any product* that contains Levamisole Hydrochloride, buy every bit you can..
4) Tetrahydropyrimidines, aka "pellet wormers." Includes pyrantel and morantel.. They have a similar mode of kill as levamisole, but my understanding is that they aren't *nearly* as strong or effective. I've never used them...when I worm, I want to know who gets what and how much of it, and you can't really do that by throwing out pellets. Plus...who wants to introduce a completely foreign feed to a goat just to deworm it?!?
So, there ya go.. Hope that helps.
ETA: Notice how I said "three kinds" and proceeded to list four..
Most lists you see lump 3 & 4 together, and I was gonna....but they're too dang different, IMHO. Forgot to change the "three" to a "four", though. - Thread starter
- #3
So all of these that you are talking about I use commonly in a rotational basis with my horses and it would be safe to say then I could use them on my goats as well without harm to them. Just follow the same directions. Thanks again
RockyToggRanch
Overrun with beasties
If you're using wormers not intended or labeled for dairy goats...how do you know if you need to dump milk and for how long?
freemotion
Self Sufficient Queen
My dog told me the milk was bad....he wouldn't drink it for three days after I injected my lactating doe with ivermectin last year!
Roll farms
Spot Master
If there is no withdrawal time listed for goats, then you don't know when to stop dumping the milk.
Ivermectin is used directly on humans in third world countries, though...so I'd venture it's fairly 'safe'.
If I'm in doubt, I don't keep the milk (for us humans) for 2 weeks. But I can't afford to dump it, so I do keep it for kids during that time.
(So far, I haven't had / seen any issues from giving kids the milk that *might* have dewormer traces in it. There's a slight risk of kids getting small doses that would build up wormer resistance, I'd imagine, but I deworm very infrequently (wormy goats don't last here long, I won't 'breed' worm-prone genes into our herd).
As far as rotating dewormers, I started out doing that, simply b/c it's what I'd always done w/ my horses, then llamas....until my favorite llama got menengeal worms and I discovered that ivermectin was the ONLY dewormer that worked on it. I lost that llama in a slow, painful way and it was a hard lesson learned to USE THE RIGHT DEWORMER FOR THE JOB.
Now, if I hear a cough / suspect lungworm, I use ivermectin 1% orally and follow up in 3 weeks w/ a second dose. Generally it clears up.
If I find pale eyelids, I suspect barberpole worm and use Valbazen on UNBRED DOES (it can cause abortions).
If they're bred, I use safeguard goat dewormer at 2x the dose on the bottle for 3 days straight.
For leg mites, I use ivermectin 1% orally.
For the kids, I usually use the pelleted dewormers, since it's easy to monitor intake / dosage w/ them....but I don't use it unless I feel I need to.
I have cydectin here, but avoid using it so that I have a 'big gun' to fall back on when / if I need it. (If valbazen stops working for me some day.)
I bought some levasole pig dewormer from work (TSC) a couple years ago...then, the more I researched it...the more it scared me to use it. So I took it back.
Bottom line, for me, is DON'T USE IT, unless you know, either via a fecal sample or experience, what problem you have and WHY you're using that wormer.
Otherwise, you could be under / over dosing and creating a bigger resistance issue.
You could also be wasting dewormer on a goat who doesn't need it, if you do it 'just because it's time'.
If you have a goat who needs dewormed constantly....consider getting rid of it.
As far as using horse paste, I don't, my vet told me long ago that when they fill the tubes at the factory, one end gets the meds, the rest is filled w/ the 'filler'...so one goat is getting a full horse dose, while the goat dosed from the other end, is getting filler only. (It's not mixed equally throughout the tube).
I get most of my dewormers / supplies through Jeffers Livestock. They have everything mentioned above at reasonable prices (generic ivermectin 1% injectable is the same as ivomec), and if you get 50$ worth of stuff, there's no shipping fee, AND it's usually here in 2 days.
Ivermectin is used directly on humans in third world countries, though...so I'd venture it's fairly 'safe'.
If I'm in doubt, I don't keep the milk (for us humans) for 2 weeks. But I can't afford to dump it, so I do keep it for kids during that time.
(So far, I haven't had / seen any issues from giving kids the milk that *might* have dewormer traces in it. There's a slight risk of kids getting small doses that would build up wormer resistance, I'd imagine, but I deworm very infrequently (wormy goats don't last here long, I won't 'breed' worm-prone genes into our herd).
As far as rotating dewormers, I started out doing that, simply b/c it's what I'd always done w/ my horses, then llamas....until my favorite llama got menengeal worms and I discovered that ivermectin was the ONLY dewormer that worked on it. I lost that llama in a slow, painful way and it was a hard lesson learned to USE THE RIGHT DEWORMER FOR THE JOB.
Now, if I hear a cough / suspect lungworm, I use ivermectin 1% orally and follow up in 3 weeks w/ a second dose. Generally it clears up.
If I find pale eyelids, I suspect barberpole worm and use Valbazen on UNBRED DOES (it can cause abortions).
If they're bred, I use safeguard goat dewormer at 2x the dose on the bottle for 3 days straight.
For leg mites, I use ivermectin 1% orally.
For the kids, I usually use the pelleted dewormers, since it's easy to monitor intake / dosage w/ them....but I don't use it unless I feel I need to.
I have cydectin here, but avoid using it so that I have a 'big gun' to fall back on when / if I need it. (If valbazen stops working for me some day.)
I bought some levasole pig dewormer from work (TSC) a couple years ago...then, the more I researched it...the more it scared me to use it. So I took it back.
Bottom line, for me, is DON'T USE IT, unless you know, either via a fecal sample or experience, what problem you have and WHY you're using that wormer.
Otherwise, you could be under / over dosing and creating a bigger resistance issue.
You could also be wasting dewormer on a goat who doesn't need it, if you do it 'just because it's time'.
If you have a goat who needs dewormed constantly....consider getting rid of it.
As far as using horse paste, I don't, my vet told me long ago that when they fill the tubes at the factory, one end gets the meds, the rest is filled w/ the 'filler'...so one goat is getting a full horse dose, while the goat dosed from the other end, is getting filler only. (It's not mixed equally throughout the tube).
I get most of my dewormers / supplies through Jeffers Livestock. They have everything mentioned above at reasonable prices (generic ivermectin 1% injectable is the same as ivomec), and if you get 50$ worth of stuff, there's no shipping fee, AND it's usually here in 2 days.
