Keeping Meat Rabbits

You have to understand - Bossroo had some very unpleasant experiences with colonies, and saw first-hand the parasite and disease problems, as well as horrific rabbit-on-rabbit aggression. In fact, most people who have been in rabbits for long can tell tales that can curl your toes. As a result, we tend to cringe when we see people insisting that rabbits are social, and are only "happy" when kept in groups.
 
@Tale of Tails Rabbitry I'm here to learn. I just want to try something different is all and I wanted your opinions knowing I was going to get some push back. I'm asking why you think one way over another not to be a pain, but to learn. Maybe this won't work out for me but if it does, maybe it'll help someone down the road. If it doesn't, then I can say why it didn't work and it'll save others from going through the trouble.

@Bunnylady I wish Bossroo had shared their experience so I can understand that. If my does turn out to be aggressive I've already stated that I have the space to separate their pens. Why would being in pens on concrete vs in a wired cage increase parasites and disease? I can see how that may be more of a problem on dirt in an area that has more humidity and moisture but on concrete in Nevada (think such low humidity your nose will bleed)? Again, I'm not asking questions to rile everyone up.
 
@BoboFarm I understand and it really is not meant to be "push back" but rather opinions based on our experiences, which obviously vary. I have found that people tend to have the strongest opinions BECAUSE of their experiences.

I also do not see rabbits in cages as a cruelty as long as they are properly cared for. My rabbits have roomy cages were some can see each other but not be threatened by the others. They act like they feel safer in their cages and I spend time with them, hand feeding them greens that they love. When I get them near the open door, they are ready to jump into their cage, their space, their home.

I wish you well with your endeavor and I truly mean that. I personally would have no desire to even try it based on my own experiences, just with any kind of smooth, hard flooring alone and especially with a bedding material that they can so easily slip on as well. In my opinion, the rabbits would be too likely to injure themselves. Been there, done that, WON'T do it again. (Opinion, not push back.)
 
I guess in the end, all you can do is try it for yourself and see If it works and you like it. Believe me, giving you our experiences and even disagreeing with one another is in no way meant to be obtrusive or offensive. Folks disagree with me all the time. That's what we do on here, give feedback, our experiences and opinions. :old
 
@BoboFarm Then may I make one suggestion? Before you go foward with your plans to set everything up, place a rabbit on the type of surface you would have and watch how it walks. If its legs are sliding out to the sides unlike it would on a carpet or the ground or it is constantly twisting the paws out from the body that would be bad. If not, then try the same thing after you have covered the same surface with pine shavings.

I can guarantee you that the rabbit's legs will slip out, but you need to see it for yourself. The repetitive movements will eventually cause a mature rabbit's legs to weaken and be more susceptible to injury. It would be like living in space for a human; we can do it but our bodies change because we really do need gravity to be healthy.

Back to the experiment: A mature rabbit will try to compensate by pulling in the legs tightly to the body and making smaller movements. A kit will sprawl to the point that its tendons will be stretched out so that it cannot bring the legs in at all. This could happen with just one leg, both front legs, all the legs, or any combination. For us, the front legs were effected the most, but they did not develop well in the hindquarters either.

Basically, anything that gives a rabbit traction is something they will try to eat. They will even pull on the wires. That is why we only use galvanized after weld wires for the floors. I had rabbits pulling apart the floors with the galvanized before weld wires which are cheaper.
 
@Tale of Tails Rabbitry I was looking on youtube at different cage types and I noticed some use stacked cages with vinyl flooring. Vinyl is smoother than a broom finish on concrete and the rabbits didn't seem to have a problem slipping. What flooring did you have that caused splayed legs? I can try the experiment when we get the concrete and seal done. We'll do concrete regardless of having pens or cages.
 
@BoboFarm Could you provide the link? Most of the examples with vinyl flooring I have seen were for mature pets, not breeders with kits, and in large areas I have seen they are usually provided grass mats or the like for traction.

Depending upon the grade of vinyl, it has some cushion and can be impressed. Rabbits nails can give them some traction on vinyl. Even so, my second rabbit was an litter box trained, indoor pet. He slipped on vinyl that was non-slip type one morning and lost the use of his back legs and control of his bowels, stopped eating, and died within a week. The vet, which was a vet for small and large farm animals also, told me it was not uncommon, which is why he strongly was not in favor of rabbits being raised on hard or smooth floors of any kind.

The two kindles with some developing splayed legs were on a material similar that was piled high with straw in the nesting side of our brood cage, which was my husband's idea. The kits, of course, moved the straw around until they were on the bottom. They did not have the necessary traction to develop correctly. Some did better than others but a significant number had at least two splayed legs.

Concrete is not the same as vinyl and vinyl is risky enough. While some people think that wires are not good, I do not have rabbits with sores on their paws. We do provide our rabbits with warming pads, which are turned off on warm days. These pads allow them to be off the wires if they desire to be, but they rarely are on them except in the winter. The wire flooring is really not as bad for rabbits as people make it out to be.
 
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@Tale of Tails Rabbitry I was watching a gal's videos on her rabbitry, Hook's Hollands. She has them in stacked cages with a solid vinyl floor. She had does with kits in these cages. During one video she had several rabbits running around on the concrete and I didn't see a problem. When we had our pet rabbit as a kid we let her run around in the garage and outside on concrete with us on a daily basis. She was also on laminate flooring in the house. We never had a problem. She was a Flemish Giant. I used to work as a vet tech for many years. I started in a small animal practice. The vet that I worked with did not like rabbits on wire cages because of the sore hocks we saw on a very regular basis. I also worked in a medical research facility for a few years. Rabbits were kept in wire-bottomed cages. A new gal was in her second week of training and she mishandled a doe that was being transferred to a buck's cage for breeding. The doe jumped in his cage and blasted around the cage for a minute until she broke her back. For some reason the doe got spooked. She had been bred several times in the past with the same buck with no issue. My point is I think accidents like that can happen with any kind of flooring.
 
@BoboFarm Her cages are not that small but she has a nesting box, a litter box, and a mat--that provides traction--in each one that I saw on her video so they are not doing a lot of hopping in them. She has smaller rabbits than the heavier meat rabbits, but I did notice that the rabbits left out to run for a short time on the concrete floor inside did tend to slip a leg outward when they were not hopping in a straight line and they are not on that surface every day and even when they are it is just for a few minutes. The concrete outside, when she place them in pens, is a rough finish that works much better for traction. However, I am thinking that would be hard to clean all the crevices and it could also cause sores on the hocks because it is such a hard rough surface, but she does not leave them out on that surface all day either. I like that she provides her rabbits a variety of surfaces throughout the day. I also noticed that she is not using any pine chips on any those surfaces. Lastly, I did not see any of her kits walking in the vinyl so you still have not seen what I am talking about.

Did you not notice how animals slip on smooth surfaces when you worked with the vet?

On a side note, I had to laugh at her toilet paper roll hay feeders which are cute for small rabbits but...well, my rabbits would starve.

As I always say, no two rabbit keepers have the same set up or do everything the same, but I think her set up is rather labor intensive, which is fine because that is the way she wants it. I rather spend more time with my buns than spend so much time cleaning.
 
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