Legal question

[Southern by choice]

I think both parties were a bit hasty and did not think this through.

From the loss of your nubian fellow it left a little hole in your heart, you came across this and and boom boom boom shabang you have 2 more goats.
I have no doubt there was a mutual feeling of "this seems right"... then a little time set in and now there is this uh oh what have I done.
Both parties are responsible. However you agreed to conditions and now in hindsight you are not comfortable. Now you are questioning the lady and the why's etc...she may be doingg the same thing.
Don't get into the blame/shame thing.
Bottom line is it was a hasty decision on both sides.




You being new to goats all this is understandable and we learn as we go. We have all made decisions at one time or another and then went. UGH what did I do. Some of us have done this more than once because we didn't learn the first time. What's great is I have a farm partner @Goat Whisperer and she keeps me set straight. most of time.

Goats are addictive for sure and many get their first goats and then they get more and more.... too many too fast. This is never a good thing.
The 8 you have is truly where you should stay before adding anything else. There is a great learning curve. Going through a full year, getting a better understanding of expense, care, treatment etc is going to be beneficial.

Learning about disease, tested animals, parasites ... all that is important.
Your guys are little. They are easy to care for and feed etc right now however I think you will see a huge difference in a year from now. Two years even more so.
8 wethers that are going to be between 200-300 # each at maturity (3 years of age) eat alot!
So in a year when they are 125-175 # and eating X amount of pounds of feed, minerals, hay because they must have have 24/7 year round... it adds up and fast.
Care- Hooves alone with Standard bucks are difficult, they are massive hooves and generally take 2 people on a super well behaved goat.

Inexperience had you looking at the goats and deciding something was wrong because their bellies look more round.
Most goats full of worms don't look pot bellied like a dog would... they end up emaciated.
All goats at some point will have some parasites, it is about managing so those numbers don't get out of control.

I honestly think you should return the animals if she will take them back.

 

[Carla D]

I think both parties were a bit hasty and did not think this through.

From the loss of your nubian fellow it left a little hole in your heart, you came across this and and boom boom boom shabang you have 2 more goats.
I have no doubt there was a mutual feeling of "this seems right"... then a little time set in and now there is this uh oh what have I done.
Both parties are responsible. However you agreed to conditions and now in hindsight you are not comfortable. Now you are questioning the lady and the why's etc...she may be doingg the same thing.
Don't get into the blame/shame thing.
Bottom line is it was a hasty decision on both sides.

You being new to goats all this is understandable and we learn as we go. We have all made decisions at one time or another and then went. UGH what did I do. Some of us have done this more than once because we didn't learn the first time. What's great is I have a farm partner @Goat Whisperer and she keeps me set straight. most of time.

Goats are addictive for sure and many get their first goats and then they get more and more.... too many too fast. This is never a good thing.
The 8 you have is truly where you should stay before adding anything else. There is a great learning curve. Going through a full year, getting a better understanding of expense, care, treatment etc is going to be beneficial.

Learning about disease, tested animals, parasites ... all that is important.
Your guys are little. They are easy to care for and feed etc right now however I think you will see a huge difference in a year from now. Two years even more so.
8 wethers that are going to be between 200-300 # each at maturity (3 years of age) eat alot!
So in a year when they are 125-175 # and eating X amount of pounds of feed, minerals, hay because they must have have 24/7 year round... it adds up and fast.
Care- Hooves alone with Standard bucks are difficult, they are massive hooves and generally take 2 people on a super well behaved goat.

Inexperience had you looking at the goats and deciding something was wrong because their bellies look more round.
Most goats full of worms don't look pot bellied like a dog would... they end up emaciated.
All goats at some point will have some parasites, it is about managing so those numbers don't get out of control.

I honestly think you should return the animals if she will take them back.

I do agree with what you said, at least 98% of it. I’m always questioning myself, actions, and things. Sometimes o think way too much, and other times, well many times I don’t think things trough well enough. I am going to take your advice and see if she wants them back or would be willing to take them back. That may be the smartest decision for both of us and the two goats in question. Thank you. I may have also jumped to conclusions that they may not be perfectly healthy being she takes a more holistic approach than I do. I don’t know much about holistic medicine, treatment, or therapies. I may be totally off base with my judgement. I realize that may be the case.

 

[Carla D]

Here is a good example- both these goats are parasite free and coccidia free
The red goat was born in May the black goat February. We show both these goats, however they have very different body structures. They are both lamanchas, both does but from two different lines. Both healthy.
The other pics show the body capacity and sizes. The red doe 75-80# at 5 months old the black doe is about the same weight but she is 8 months old. The red doe is not fat at all. The black doe is not skinny. Goat with healthy rumins want to EAT and they generally act hungry all the time.
View attachment 54369 View attachment 54370 View attachment 54371 View attachment 54372

Thank you for the pictures and explanation of each. I tried looking goats at healthy, sick, overweight, and underweight. There are a whole mess of pictures on the web. But most of them do say what condition they are in. So I don’t even know what I’m looking at. Someone mentioned a phrase I should look up. Something about how to judge/grade their weight, health standards. I just got that but haven’t been able to look things up yet. It’s the “body conditioning scale”. I didn’t have the right phrase or terminology to look this sort of thing up. Now I should be able to get a better idea about my baby goat weight and growth. I question if I’m giving them enough in their bottles or if I’m giving them enough bottles to support healthy growth.

 

[Carla D]

Regarding the intact buck... please remember we ask questions because we really want to help make you a successful goat mom... why rush to castrate? Yes wethers are loving, funny guys but bucks can be just as nice. I have Nigerian Dwarfs and they can breed year around but they are only fragrant during the fall. My guys love being loved on and I wouldn't trade them for anything. They are not aggressive, but also they are not huge goats.

I can see the sense in getting all the guys done at one time rather that have to go through the surgery process twice, but...

I can also see not wanting to have a buck if you are not going to breed... but still I love my wee bucks.

Your wethers are going to head butt each other and occasionally be crabby, with or without a buck.

I don't think the "seller" has stated anything definitively. What I read was all wishful thinking for something that she may want to do down the road. If she was concerned over the intact male then she should not have given him to you. You have been clear with her.

Do keep us posted on what happens with this person. It is a learning experience for all of us.

Oh, yeah, it really is better to quarantine new stock before introducing the newbies to the oldies... I wasn't set up to be able to do that when I started my journey down the goat path. Very fortunate for me, I didn't have any problems but what I did was not optimal or wise. Now I have a quarantine area... just in case I can't turn down a goat with "Love ME" in her or his eyes.

Thank you. I don’t know much about goats let alone bucks. I haven’t read much about them being as sweet and lovey doves as a wether yet. I’m assuming each and every goat has their own personality and attitude. I know my little boys sure do. A couple are so patient and wait for their bottle. I have a couple that as soon as I start feeding a different goat they are busting in to “help” them drink it for every other goat. I have a couple that will stand next to me and say “excuse me, what about me” by gently pawing at my arm with their hoof/paw. Some like to dance and jump sideways and backwards. Others simply race each other or my daughter to the finish line. They are all different. I’m assuming it’s that way with bucks too. Some sweet and gentle, some assertive, some dominate, some smellier than others. I’m thinking male critters get hormonal or want to procreate just like the females. I don’t know if it’s because the female is in heat or cycling and triggers them or if it cyclic for males as well.

I do totally agree about quarantining new animals until the unknowns and health status is figured out. That was one of my dumb moments.

I also was thinking the transactions were either wishful/hopeful thinking or an invitation to discuss a not so typical transaction or deal. But, I do know that in many states verbal or email statements/contracts are just as binding as an actual drawn up contract. After reading these a few times it started to look like a wishful request and not a condition. But, I’ve been wrong about a lot of things lately. I now know that if any exchange being animal related, vehicle, anything is not the typical it really needs to be written down in words and signed by both parties. Otherwise it becomes an implied stipulation at minimal.

I am also trying to take everyone’s knowledge and experiences as just that. Not as commands, implied wrong doings, or should haves. I was in a very rare and unusual mood when I jumped down Latestarters throat for something he said to me several days ago. I feel horrible for not having better self control an my harsh words.

 

[Carla D]

I did remove the pictures I posted on this particular forum. It was pointed out to me that there was an address and a phone number shown in one or two of them. For identity and safety purposes I did remove the pictures. I had thought about removing this particular forum because things have significantly change, for the best. I thought there may be information that someone else could possibly find useful. I did post an update/resolution of this situation in my journal if you are interested in what happened in the end.

 

[Southern by choice]

I did remove the pictures I posted on this particular forum. It was pointed out to me that there was an address and a phone number shown in one or two of them. For identity and safety purposes I did remove the pictures. I had thought about removing this particular forum because things have significantly change, for the best. I thought there may be information that someone else could possibly find useful. I did post an update/resolution of this situation in my journal if you are interested in what happened in the end.

I also removed the section that I had quoted with a pic of the transcript.

 

[Carla D]

I also removed the section that I had quoted with a pic of the transcript.

Sounds good thank you. Do you think anyone could possibly find any benefit if I repost the pictures AFTER I remove the personal information?

 

[Southern by choice]

No, I don't think the pic were of any benefit to the situation. I do think the learning experience and the outcome is beneficial.
Thankfully it all worked out.