ksalvagno
Alpaca Master
It sounds to me like having LGD's may not be for you. It may be best to rehome these guys. if you have to shock them so hard that they poop, then it is time to move them on. That would just be too cruel.
Loving my dogs again! Pics
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Straw Hat Kikos
The Kiko Cowboy
Did you read it all? Because she saying they don't want to do that. Her husband wanted to but I think they both realize that's not the way to go.ksalvagno said:
babsbag
Herd Master
My heart aches for you.
Unfortunately LGDs are know for being escape artists. If you re-home these and start over you will quite likely have the same escape problem. I put up an electic fence that HURTS and they learned about it as pups, and I mean little guys, 8 weeks old. They are now over 2 years and they don't even touch the fence. My boy won't even go through a gate that is near the hot wire. The wire is at the top of the fence and about 12-15 inches off the ground. My fences are 4' high.
As far as her killing a calf, you will never know. It could have been her, it could have been a game of chase that got out of control, but typically these dogs don't have a prey drive that will chase and kill and eat, but it does happen.
But also, part of an LGDs job is to clean up the pasture of anything that would attract predators, and for some dogs that means cleaning up "eating" dead animals.
There is a lot of variances in the possibly scenario. Does she think she needs to protect that pasture as well as her own? If not, then she might not see the calf as something she needs to protect but rather as a toy and then she could have done the deed, most lkely by accident. My dogs kill chickens, but they don't hunt them down and slaughter them; they play with them and kill them by rough handling. Then the female will eat them, never the male. But, my male be very well be the one chasing the chicken to its death.
I don't know what I would do next. If you can keep her home I would probably just keep a very close eye on her behavior around your animals. I wouldn't leave her alone with them for a while until you know what she will do. I am very very sorry and I don't think there will be an easy fix. But personally, I don't think that your dog is ruined as an LGD, if you can keep her home I would give her a chance.
Unfortunately you will have the deal with the calf owner and pray that he doesn't get nasty about it and call your animal control. They might make you get rid of the dog.
Unfortunately LGDs are know for being escape artists. If you re-home these and start over you will quite likely have the same escape problem. I put up an electic fence that HURTS and they learned about it as pups, and I mean little guys, 8 weeks old. They are now over 2 years and they don't even touch the fence. My boy won't even go through a gate that is near the hot wire. The wire is at the top of the fence and about 12-15 inches off the ground. My fences are 4' high.
As far as her killing a calf, you will never know. It could have been her, it could have been a game of chase that got out of control, but typically these dogs don't have a prey drive that will chase and kill and eat, but it does happen.
But also, part of an LGDs job is to clean up the pasture of anything that would attract predators, and for some dogs that means cleaning up "eating" dead animals.
There is a lot of variances in the possibly scenario. Does she think she needs to protect that pasture as well as her own? If not, then she might not see the calf as something she needs to protect but rather as a toy and then she could have done the deed, most lkely by accident. My dogs kill chickens, but they don't hunt them down and slaughter them; they play with them and kill them by rough handling. Then the female will eat them, never the male. But, my male be very well be the one chasing the chicken to its death.
I don't know what I would do next. If you can keep her home I would probably just keep a very close eye on her behavior around your animals. I wouldn't leave her alone with them for a while until you know what she will do. I am very very sorry and I don't think there will be an easy fix. But personally, I don't think that your dog is ruined as an LGD, if you can keep her home I would give her a chance.
Unfortunately you will have the deal with the calf owner and pray that he doesn't get nasty about it and call your animal control. They might make you get rid of the dog.
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woodsie
Loving the herd life
Thanks, you pretty much described to a tee what I have been thinking. I did offer to pay for the calf, but the rancher was gracious, refused but made it clear that if the dogs were up there again that they wouldn't be coming home alive....fair enough, I'd do the same and I don't blame him for saying so in the least.babsbag said:My heart aches for you.
Unfortunately LGDs are know for being escape artists. If you re-home these and start over you will quite likely have the same escape problem. I put up an electic fence that HURTS and they learned about it as pups, and I mean little guys, 8 weeks old. They are now over 2 years and they don't even touch the fence. My boy won't even go through a gate that is near the hot wire. The wire is at the top of the fence and about 12-15 inches off the ground. My fences are 4' high.
As far as her killing a calf, you will never know. It could have been her, it could have been a game of chase that got out of control, but typically these dogs don't have a prey drive that will chase and kill and eat, but it does happen.
But also, part of an LGDs job is to clean up the pasture of anything that would attract predators, and for some dogs that means cleaning up "eating" dead animals.
There is a lot of variances in the possibly scenario. Does she think she needs to protect that pasture as well as her own? If not, then she might not see the calf as something she needs to protect but rather as a toy and then she could have done the deed, most lkely by accident. My dogs kill chickens, but they don't hunt them down and slaughter them; they play with them and kill them by rough handling. Then the female will eat them, never the male. But, my male be very well be the one chasing the chicken to its death.
I don't know what I would do next. If you can keep her home I would probably just keep a very close eye on her behavior around your animals. I wouldn't leave her alone with them for a while until you know what she will do. I am very very sorry and I don't think there will be an easy fix. But personally, I don't think that your dog is ruined as an LGD, if you can keep her home I would give her a chance.
Unfortunately you will have the deal with the calf owner and pray that he doesn't get nasty about it and call your animal control. They might make you get rid of the dog.
The more I think about it the more I am convinced that she didn't actually kill the calf....the coyotes in the area have been very aggressive recently, all the dogs in the area have been going nuts over them encroaching into the fields...plus the eagles that were aggressively trying to get at the carcass, probably because they were eating at it before she showed up...but unfortunately I'll never be certain and it is a horrible thing not to trust your dog. I'll talk to the lead ranch hand there tonight and have a heart to heart...and see if they have been losing other calfs to coyotes/predators, because I would honestly put her down if she was indeed a livestock killer....as much as that would break my heart (we've had her since she was a pup). I wouldn't want to rehome a dog that was just going to cause someone else this hardache.
This picture is her and is so accurate of who she is...always licking and lovin on the lambs and sheep. I can't fathom that she would ever hurt a helpless animal.
For now they will be chained to their shelter in the hotwired 5' tall sheep pen....the chain will be just long enough for her to touch the hotwire and learn to stay away. I'll keep a close watch on with the sheep although she is acting totally normal with them so far.
BrownSheep
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I am sorry this isn't working out for you.
babsbag
Herd Master
Cute pictures; she doesn't look like a killer.
I wouldn't give up on her yet. But I understand the fencing issue and the time and money. I have about 4 acres I would love to fence for the goats. Have the supplies, just don't have the time. Plus not relishing Poison Oak.
BTW, my female climbed out of a 6 foot high chain link kennel. She knew there was no hotwire on it. They are smart smart dogs.
I wouldn't give up on her yet. But I understand the fencing issue and the time and money. I have about 4 acres I would love to fence for the goats. Have the supplies, just don't have the time. Plus not relishing Poison Oak.
BTW, my female climbed out of a 6 foot high chain link kennel. She knew there was no hotwire on it. They are smart smart dogs.
BrownSheep
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Also, like the others have said, just because she ate it doesn't mean she killed it. My dogs aren't killers but are constantly bring home dead things. If they find it dead they'll eat it.
babsbag
Herd Master
How will do their job if they are chained in a pen? I understand the reasons, but just wondering if this is a temporary setup?woodsie said:
treeclimber233
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My GP ate a baby goat when he was 6 months old (or so). My doe had twins and I could tell the one baby was born dead. It was still laying in a puddle of water (where the sack broke) and was all twisted. The mother was still trying to get it up so I left it there while I ran to the store. When I came back the baby was gone and Drift was carrying the head around in his mouth. Other than him wanting to play with the babies since then he has never hurt any of them. And other than the dead chicken I found in the pen the other morning he has never hurt any of the chickens with him either. Sometimes when I go to the barn he runs thru the flock sending them scattering (screaming and flapping) and all he does is stop to see what all the comotion is about. I don't think he killed the chicken I found. I think something else got it and he chased it off. He did not eat the chicken which surprised me. Good to know he is supposed to "clean up". I have a doe due now with nowhere to put her so I hope everything goes alright. He is 2 now but his big feet look pretty dangerous to me. They are larger than the babies heads!!!!!
ylevitin
Exploring the pasture
Sometimes you need to realize that not every dog of LGD breed is suited to do LGD work.
Good LGD dog has instincts that make them invaluable in a farm environment - they develop bond with their charges and property, they recognize their territory and stay within boundaries, they would never chase or hurt an animal they are in charge of (especially baby animal). If you have to "train" your dog to do these things - you don't have an LGD.
Good LGD dog has instincts that make them invaluable in a farm environment - they develop bond with their charges and property, they recognize their territory and stay within boundaries, they would never chase or hurt an animal they are in charge of (especially baby animal). If you have to "train" your dog to do these things - you don't have an LGD.
