Parasite infestation?

[Southern by choice]

He came out and looked them all over. They have Enterotoxemia because of the big change in temperature and they are still bottle feeding. That explains the bloating.

Enterotoxemia is not caused by weather change.
https://vet.uga.edu/news/view/enterotoxemia_in_sheep_and_goats
http://extension.colostate.edu/topi...-overeating-disease-of-sheep-and-goats-8-018/

Two other goats had developed dime sized abscesses on their sides. The scabby lump on their side is from when they ruptured. Not mites.

What exactly caused the abscesses?

 

[Carla D]

Thats great news Carla, i am very happy that you got the reassurance from your vet. I bottle fed Rocky and Lilly for ten weeks and at eight weeks started with the extra water, Rocky was still six months old and i would bring him one bottle of just water ,lol. We both enjoyed our bottle time together....but i didnt have as many at that time as you do !

I enjoy our bottle time as well. That’s why I haven’t been in a big hurry to wean them. But now I have a very good reason to get them weaned ASAP.

 

[Carla D]

I'm curious what that cattle breed is. I'm not familiar with that.

I believe he said it was either guernsey or Jersey.

 

[Carla D]

Enterotoxemia is not caused by weather change.
https://vet.uga.edu/news/view/enterotoxemia_in_sheep_and_goats
http://extension.colostate.edu/topi...-overeating-disease-of-sheep-and-goats-8-018/

What exactly caused the abscesses?

I did read your article. I wasn’t 100% sure about his answer pertaining to the weather. I think he said it had to do with the big change in temperatures. Because we had been really cold, mid teens for a couple of weeks, then we had about 5 days of 40+ degree temps. Giving their clostridium the chance to bloom because their rumins have not completely developed due to the fact that they are still relying on formula for a major source of their nutrition. I had kinda thought that an animals internal temperature pretty much stayed constant with only a degree or two change when sick or stressed. So, his explanation doesn’t make any sense? Because the symptoms he described and the treatment course he gave me matches the ones in the article. I’m so green about goats that I haven’t been able to determine fact from fiction or knowledge to figure some of this stuff out.

 

[Carla D]

Enterotoxemia is not caused by weather change.
https://vet.uga.edu/news/view/enterotoxemia_in_sheep_and_goats
http://extension.colostate.edu/topi...-overeating-disease-of-sheep-and-goats-8-018/

What exactly caused the abscesses?

That I’m not entirely sure. Could it have been a scratch or small wound that festered?

 

[Southern by choice]

I enjoy our bottle time as well. That’s why I haven’t been in a big hurry to wean them. But now I have a very good reason to get them weaned ASAP.

The switching of formulas and the corn husk is more your culprit. Not the bottle feeding. And if you were worried about them gaining and suddenly upped their amounts that sets them up for this.
Standard size goats are generally not weaned til 12-16 weeks. We do not wean any of ours from milk til 16 weeks, of course they are eating hay and have some goat feed as well.
Notice in the article there are other contributing factors and you guys have had pretty much all those factors. Coccidia, parasites, change of feed, the stress of surgical dehorning and so on.

 

[Carla D]

The switching of formulas and the corn husk is more your culprit. Not the bottle feeding. And if you were worried about them gaining and suddenly upped their amounts that sets them up for this.
Standard size goats are generally not weaned til 12-16 weeks. We do not wean any of ours from milk til 16 weeks, of course they are eating hay and have some goat feed as well.
Notice in the article there are other contributing factors and you guys have had pretty much all those factors. Coccidia, parasites, change of feed, the stress of surgical dehorning and so on.

Ok, that DOES make complete sense. I think you have most likely pinpointed every little thing that was going on with these guys.

I had switched their bottle feed for a few meals, and hadn’t thought about those reproductions. I do believe you 100% about the corn husks. I was worried about their weight and had increased their the amount of calf manna a little bit. The fact that I haven’t noticed much if any calf manna on the ground does tell me that that alone is a really big change in their diet. I’m going to take your 12-16 weeks of bottle feeding for full sized goats is the desired if not recommended thing to do. And yup, they have had all of thos very things you had mentioned, Coccidia, worms, dehorning, banding, diet change, probably a few more are the likely cause of what has been going on these last couple of days.

I pretty much have only one question remaining that I hope you can give me some perspective about. Their feed. Things have gotten extremely tight financially, especially with all of the vetting that has been done recently. With that in mind we were running low on the alfalfa and the meat goat pellets that we had mixed all of our small remaining rations together so we would have a better idea as to exactly what we had available. We honestly can’t afford to go out and buy a $65-70 bag of calf manna right now. That’s why we mixed all of them together. So now the ratio is more like 2 parts meat grower pellets, 2 parts alfalfa, and 2-2.5 parts of the calf manna. That is a pretty big change in pellet mixture. I can also see why that may be a big issue especially since it seems like the only parts they are eating is pretty much the calf manna and some alfalfa pellets, not the meat goat. That is also a bigger change. With all of that in mind, do you think it would be ok to continue using the pellets we have that are all mixed together and then clean up the waste. Or should I be trying to scrounge up a bag of calf manna and alfalfa? I’m inclined to continue with what they have since they aren’t eating what they want out of it, then only buy the calf manna and alfalfa pellets. Is the calf manna medicated as well? Or am I going to heed to do something about the CD that they aren’t getting because they are not currently eating their goat pellets? What WOULD YOU DO? We already aren’t going to be having a Christmas. That’s another thing we may have to struggle with is buying new feed. I’m torn.

 

[frustratedearthmother]

Sounds like too much calf manna to me - it is meant to be a supplement - NOT a feed.

 

[Southern by choice]

@frustratedearthmother is 100% right.
I posted before with nutritional facts and info and so I will say it again. Get them off the calf -manna. It is a supplement not a feed and even as a supplement it is small amounts.
Look back at the link provided with the info about Urinary Calculi.

You have wethers now which means they should have little grain (feed) and the grain (feed) given should be balanced with everything I already mentioned.
They need hay and lots of it. Orchard OR orchard /alfalfa blend is good.

I would NOT use any calf manna at all. I would get a good medicated goat feed (not sweet feed) with 2:1 up to 4:1 ratio and give in small amounts.

One thing I am not sure has been mentioned is if these kids are CAE positive you will have a hard time growing them.

 

[greybeard]

It is a supplement not a feed and even as a supplement it is small amounts.

For what it's worth the same holds true for calves on calf manna as well.
One of he problems comes from Calf Manna's advertising........

The Solution:

Calf-Manna is an ideal first feed for kids as it provides high quality proteins, including whey, which are necessary for sound growth and development
https://www.mannapro.com/products/goat/goats

The instructions are rather vague:
Goats 1/4 to 1/2 lb per day
https://www.jefferspet.com/media/W1siZiIsIjIwMTQvMDkvMDgvMTMvMzkvMDAvODM3LzAwMjgzMjQucGRmIl1d

But, it doesn't mention what AGE goats. By it's nature, it makes the animal eat more and more isn't always better for animals still on milk or just weaned.

One size (or instructions does not fit all.
It's good stuff and I've used it for years with good results but you have to be careful because of the high energy content and carbs.

Dairy Calves Up to 1 lb per day
Beef Calves 10% of the creep feed
Just way too many variables to use fixed ratios...with any livestock.