Purebreds vs crossbreds

[cbobgo]

some folks at a different LGD group I joined suggested that an akbash/kangal cross might be too energetic for a smaller property like mine. The word she used to describe them was "hot" as opposed to "cooler" breeds like Marenna and Pyr.

Any thoughts on that?

- bob

 

[Southern by choice]

Accurate.

My subtle question from the other post was meant along those lines. It is a much harder LGD/LGD... both breeds.
Anatolians, anatolian pyr cross and believe it or not the pyr will do well on small acreage.

Athough pyrs are roamers as are many LGD breeds it really is because they feel their territory is as far as they can see.

The size of land is irrelevant, regardless of what people say. Predators really don't care what size property you have... they don't check land records and say, "Oh, I don't think we should go get those lambs, kids cuz they are only on 2 acres". Silly. The need for a LGD is by the level of predators and actual predator threat.

Having said that I do think being cautious of what breeds do best for your environment is something to consider.
Our goats and sheep are rotated throughout the property... using field fencing areas and hotwire through the heavy wooded areas. Because we move the hotwire often along with the goats and the dogs and will move the teams of LGD's and sometimes split teams... the areas they are in are not that large.... all do fine.

I am a trainer and so I probably deal with less issues but working with your LGD cannot be stressed enough. The addage of drop them in the field and don't interact with them is truly the root osf many LGD issues today. It was advice from long ago when the LGD was first brought here and put on 1000+ acres where there was no human contact and there were teams that interacted more like "packs". This is not the face or use of the LGD today. There are very few farms or environments like that.

We are in LGD country here, heavy heavy coyote issues and this seems to be "boer" capital There are pyrs on every, and I mean every farm here. Regardless of it being 1 acre dry lots, 2, 10 ,30,100 acres....

There are very few here that have a single LGD, as the predators are many and very bold. Coyotes taking peoples pet dogs off a porch... they are small packs but 2-3 coyotes can take down a deer buck so goats and sheep are no problem. I do not know of one farmer here that has had a loss since having their LGD's.

This year we actually have bunnies (wild) in the yard... the dogs have driven out the coyotes, fox, coon, bobcats. They are awesome!

 

[cbobgo]

so, you would consider the anatolians more in the "cool" catagory vs "hot'?

Hot: Akbash, Kangal

Cool: Pyr, Marenna, Anatolian

Where would you put Komondor, Kuvash, Mastiff?

- bob

 

[Southern by choice]

DD is on computer ..will get back to you in a bit.

 

[Southern by choice]

so, you would consider the anatolians more in the "cool" catagory vs "hot'?

Hot: Akbash, Kangal

Cool: Pyr, Marenna, Anatolian

Where would you put Komondor, Kuvash, Mastiff?

- bob

Personally I love the Kuvasz - very hard to find anyone who has working stock in the US
I think the Grt Pyrenees and the Anatolian are the "easiest" of all LGD's. The Toli being a little easier than the pyr in many ways, GP is filled with personality though and both are great for the family ranch/farm setting.
Not a huge fan of the Maremma... mostly because they are small and a little wild sometimes, depending on the stock they are coming from.

I would not recommend the Komondorok to anyone without prior experience with LGD's. EVER.

I guess it depends on the "Mastiff" you are referring too... I have worked with the Tibetan Mastiffs and they are great dogs but there again not for the inexperienced and I don't know of any LGD TM's ... most are show/pet

I do want to say many people have a very wrong impression about the Anatolian and many have been frightened away from this breed. SAD! They are one of the most incredible dogs there is! They are awesome LGD's.

The Kangals are typically the "hot" dog as you say.

There are some other threads where more detail is given but that is MO in a nutshell.

I absolutely love my pyrs but I absolutely cannot imagine not having an Anatolian either. I am considering getting another anatolian myself. I love the PYR/TOLI cross. I haven't bred a litter in 25 years because I really don't like breeding. This year I will have pyr/tolli pups and GP purebred pups.... Every pyr/toli is already spoken for.... that says alot.

There is a list on my page that discusses some of the things I would be asking a future LGD owner... take a look at it.... you may find a breeder that does the same... to help fit your needs. On site visits will tell you alot.

I was going to go back and look at your history on your first post. What is the predator threat you have right now? I know you are on 2 acres, what livestock do you have?

IMO all these things are important. Setting up the future owner for success should be a priority for any breeder.

 

[cbobgo]

Thanks again for your input. Right now we only have chickens, but plan on getting goats once the property is completely fenced and we are more settled (only been on the property for 2 weeks). Eventually there will be ducks as well, and of course the typical house dogs and cats, fish, hermit crabs, etc.

As far as predators, the main ones are raccoon and bobcats, but there are apparently coyote around as well, and there have been mountain lion and bear sightings more infrequently. We are in the foothills of the Santa Cruz Mountains on the central California coast.

- bob

 

[Hacked]

Hot,... even when shaved.

Mother is Great Pyrenees
Father is Komondor

This, is Odie.

 

[Southern by choice]

Very cool!
What livestock does he guard?

Got to say, I've never seen this cross!

 

[Moonshine]

This is very good to know! I heard coyotes this morning and very close to our house. We had 2 rabbit does in a cage together and they fought all night after we had went to bed. We have heard coyotes before but never that close. It sounded like they were within seeing distance (if it would have been daylight. But it was 4:30 am!). So I went to a flea market and bought a Pyrenees/Anatolian mix. She looks a little rough and is only 7 weeks but I'm going to clean her up and work with her. I was told she was born in the barn and raised in the barn with the goats and things would just come instinctively to her but I have read before on here that they did need to be worked with. Any advice on what I need to read on how to work with her. I don't have an adviser nor mentor. Right now I have 3 goats, rabbits, dogs and cats but I'd like to get chickens too.

 

[RamblingCowgirl]

Lots of good advice

I'll share what little I know. Some of the breeds tend to cling to the herd more, like Pyrs. Right now we have Ralph an 8mo 75% Pyr 25% Anatolian that is a dream. We just have a few acres and the only time she leaves is if I let her fallow me when I go on a walk. We let her bond with the goats in a small pen for a few months before we did more then feed her, she is still a little more shy then I would like so next time around we will do a little more handling.
The first thing she learned was the word "No!" and that is really all it takes at the rare time she has done something bad. She is smart as a whip tho. And even this young she knows what her job is. She is watchful of everything on the place, from my front door, to the box of kittens, to her goats. We have two other lose dog and some nights they take off into the woods after something, that's when she gos on high alert here.

In the past I had two Pyr/Toli crosses, and that was nothing but heart ache for a number of reasons. I was just a teenager and the guy I got them from told my mom and me that I needed two. They where mostly Anatolian and the mom came from a HUGE ranch where the pups had to be trapped to be sold. We lived on a small lot on a corner with close neighbors, and the pups bonded to each other more then the goats. They roamed all over. I ended up having to rehome them. I think it could have worked out much better if I had only got the one.

My advice would be take your time and don't jump at the first pups you come across like they are the only ones you will ever have the chance to get. And I wouldn't get more then one pup at a time unless you have a lot of stock and land.
To tell the truth I did a lot of praying when we starting looking for an LGD, then we found Ralph who is a blessing.