ROCKET UPDATE Was: Fell off my horse today -- need some advice (LONG)

[SkyWarrior]

I've done clicker training with dogs and it works very well. The problem I see is that food may or may not be a good motivator for horses.

My husband's horse, Scarlet, (who is a Morgan X Quarter) is smart. Lazy, yes, but smart. She'd do well with clicker training because she's so food driven. Long story short, she was in a rescue situation where she was moved from place to place to place, including National Forest and was in a herd of 5. The way she acts around food is starved. (she's not, of course, now) The farrier pointed to her hooves and mentioned she could tell she had an inconsistent diet.

My girl, Rocket, tends to be mostly unmotivated except perhaps being ridden and not being "bugged." The trick, I've found with her is when she acts up is to make the action odious. So her back up routine became a double and if necessary, make her back up in a controlled condition to the point where she would cut it out and go forward where I wanted her to go. That was if she simply wanted to back up constantly, but there wasn't any fear. Here was raw fear, which definitely suggests I wasn't being lead horse in her eyes.

One thought that did pop into my mind worth asking you is that when she DOES pull her balk and her backing behavior, it's sometimes near a drop off. (Given that everything is a hill here, it's kind of hard to avoid). I've been trying to get her to quit trying to back us off the road and down an embankment (there's a safety tip!) and I'm wondering if I'm telegraphing my (cough) fear and she's picking up on it. That being said, the other times that I've seen real fear in her, it has not been in that situation and I was relaxed and wondering what in the heck she was freaking out about. (dogs, rocks, etc). Again, I made her go forward and then turned her around to go home. She wanted to lope, but I made her walk. (A prancy, sweaty, freaked out walk, but still a walk). I even stopped her and held her in position for a while before moving on.

Thanks for any thoughts. You all have been so helpful!

So far everyone has been making me feel better on what I was doing and confirming where I went wrong. It says I'm not stupid, which makes me feel better; I just took her on a road that should've been okay with most horses but not her. I'm going to look up clicker training and horses and that should probably help give me some more tools to use.

When I did get back up on Rocket after the fall, we rode forward

As an aside, I have to say that I would've been in far worse shape right now if I hadn't been wearing my riding helmet. I hate wearing it because it's so darn uncomfortable, but it literally saved my life. That and my martial arts training. I rolled down the hill and probably whacked my head three times on rocks and trees. I have a big bruise down my thigh, scrapes on my fingers and a sore back and neck, but no serious injury. My helmet has some small gouges where it hit. That could've been my head.

 

[beckyburkheart]

without being there of course, .. no. you're not stupid ... if anyone says they haven't made mistakes with their horses, one time or another, pushed one too far, asked too much. ... i'd say they don't have so many hours in the saddle. we've all been there. .and sure. i've made plenty of stupid mistakes. i live with it by trying not to *repeat* them.

two things popped in my head. one is that it's very likely that you're telegraphing your fear to her .. she gets scared and unsure, but she knows for sure that you're scared to, but she can't identify a real threat so then she 'figures out' that it must be some really bad thing that is hiding and about to jump out and eat you both.

the other thing could be is if she has figured out that if she acts really scared and starts backing down a hill, you get off ... ? i'm not saying she's mean or devious, just asking if she's that smart.

and if she isn't food motivated, clicker training can work with scratches and loving, or a few minutes of rest. whatever motivates her.

it sounds like you have her pretty well in hand, just maybe asked too much too soon, and believe me, i know that can get in a downward spiral before you realize what's going on.

hang in there!

 

[beckyburkheart]

if you're helmet is uncomfortable, go shopping somewhere you can try them on. the different brands actually come in different head shapes. find one that fits and feels good - or is unnoticeable. It's well worth the money!!

 

[sawfish99]

if you're helmet is uncomfortable, go shopping somewhere you can try them on. the different brands actually come in different head shapes. find one that fits and feels good - or is unnoticeable. It's well worth the money!!

Absolutely agree. No one gets on a horse on our property without a helmet on.

If you hit your helmet on objects during the fall, you should replace it. The core material in lower end helmets is just styrofoam, and a few whacks like that will damage the integrity. Most companies even offer a program where you can send in a helmet that was involved in a fall (like yours) and they will give you a discount on a new helmet (or sometimes a replacement free). Some use the helmets with details of incident to analyze and improve designs.

 

[yankee'n'moxie]

one thing I do when I start a young horse (NOT the same as RE-training, but similar) is to "put them in the box" meaning teaching them to stay at your shoulder when you lead ... forward, stop, back, left, right .. no matter what, to stay at your shoulder. ... I use the LTJ 'wand' or a long dressage whip (as a pointer, not as discipline) in combination with clicker training. (you can google this, but i'll be happy to answer any questions).

once you have them working well "in the box" (on your shoulder) you can introduce some 'scary' stuff into the arena. just leave it on the ground and work through your ground work and gymnastics with them in the box and 'incidentally' near, over, through, the scary stuff. and be sure to 'click/treat' for *staying in the box* regardless of what you're going over or through.

Thank you for saying that! I am currently working on that with my mare, and was hoping that I was doing the right thing!!

 

[beckyburkheart]

not to throw too much out at once, but i noticed you listed as one of your mistakes that you were riding on a loose rein. i'm not sure i would totally call it a mistake as such, but you may be right in that it's something to change. i've found that light contact can give a horse a little confidence and security. consider that the difference between "contact" and "no contact" is basically infinite (like yelling at them out of the silence each time you pick up the rein) compared to light contact that can be a constant reassurance and guidance "I'm here and we're going this way." and remember that contact isn't just your reins, but your seat/weight and legs as well.

i also want to say - as a somewhat newbie on this forum - that i'm *again* amazed not just at the kindness and generosity of the members of this forum, but their knowledge and expertise as well. I think that overall you've gotten more and better advice and much more support than you would on almost any horse or training forum.

 

[beckyburkheart]

one thing I do when I start a young horse (NOT the same as RE-training, but similar) is to "put them in the box" meaning teaching them to stay at your shoulder when you lead ... forward, stop, back, left, right .. no matter what, to stay at your shoulder. ... I use the LTJ 'wand' or a long dressage whip (as a pointer, not as discipline) in combination with clicker training. (you can google this, but i'll be happy to answer any questions).

once you have them working well "in the box" (on your shoulder) you can introduce some 'scary' stuff into the arena. just leave it on the ground and work through your ground work and gymnastics with them in the box and 'incidentally' near, over, through, the scary stuff. and be sure to 'click/treat' for *staying in the box* regardless of what you're going over or through.

Thank you for saying that! I am currently working on that with my mare, and was hoping that I was doing the right thing!!

just don't get stuck on the ground work as i've seen some people do.

one of the main things i love about "the box" is how well it helps teach "go forward" which basically eliminates a ton of general problems that people have with horses. ..passing scary stuff, walking on tarps or anything, bridges, water puddles and creeks and even trailer loading.

 

[FlaRocky]

if you're helmet is uncomfortable, go shopping somewhere you can try them on. the different brands actually come in different head shapes. find one that fits and feels good - or is unnoticeable. It's well worth the money!!

Absolutely agree. No one gets on a horse on our property without a helmet on.

If you hit your helmet on objects during the fall, you should replace it. The core material in lower end helmets is just styrofoam, and a few whackus like that will damage the integrity. Most companies even offer a program where you can send in a helmet that was involved in a fall (like yours) and they will give you a discount on a new helmet (or sometimes a replacement free). Some use the helmets with details of incident to analyze and improve designs.

Yes, you must replace your helmet. I've replaced a few myself. I even replace every 2 years as a matter of safety. It is worth the drive to try out many for a proper fit.

Do you have a friend with a good trail horse that you can get to ride with you? That should help your mare a lot.

Maye

 

[SkyWarrior]

Rocket update--

Today we went riding. During Rocket's "rest" time between the fall and now, I spent more than an hour with the "Friendly Game," and then groomed her head to tail and poll to hoof each day. I figured putting my hands all over her was a good idea because she had to trust me, even in tender places.

This was the first ride after my fall and we chose to simply ride the road by our house. I decided that until I get a solid performance from Rocket each and every time on this road, we're not moving on. Period. I also made some changes to my equipment and my riding.

First, I got some leather split reins. The reins I had been using were nylon web -- the type of stuff I tell dog owners to not use because of the lack of feeling and control. Why would it be any different with a horse? So, now that I've gotten good reins, the next step was to keep them in light contact.

Oh, okay. I get it. Rocket EXPECTS input--constant input like an English-trained horse. Okay, I had been thinking neck-reining. No, not that. She expects a much tighter rein and held in two hands. I learned how to ride in English, so that's not a big stretch. We rode her past our normal turnaround and she balked. I relaxed and doubled her. She balked and backed up. I turned her to a safe place and backed her up. She went forward.

Good. Turned her around at the chosen turnaround spot and WALKED her down the road. She kept looking up hill--to bolt? I told her no and we continued down. Turned her around before we got to the barn and went back up. We did a couple of turns and then we rode them back to the barn gate and I insisted on working her in front of the gate. I rode down to the gate, circled, rode up to the mounting block and circled that. She tried to stop for the mounting block (smart horse), but I had her walk circles around it. I lost track how many times we did this until she just gave up and decided that I was directing her and she needed to obey. Then I got her to the mounting block and dismounted. It was a good ride.

I think once I can get no balks or backups and total compliance, I can start with more scary things, like where the dogs are barking and that scary rock.

We're probably going to ride tomorrow. I'll give you an update.

 

[goodhors]

I am going to third the need to replace the helmet that got the hits when you rolled downhill.
As mentioned, the interior is usually styrofoam, and when you bang it with your head, the foam
crushes to take the impact instead of your skull. So now the helmet has been crushed in places,
so that foam is not able to do the crush thing again, should you hit your helmet a 2nd time.

Just replace it.

Read the inside of the helmet for the ASTM, SEI approval sticker to make sure this is a "real"
piece of safety equipment. Without the stickers, even if it looks like a helmet, you only have
a HAT. No protection offered by the maker.

The OTHER item inside the helmet is the date of manufacture. This is the day THIS HELMET
was made. Makers recommend replacing the helmet every 5 years from that manufacture date
as a safety issue. Plastics, foam, glues, degrade over time, so protection the helmet offers can
not be as safe with the passage of time. Helmets worn daily, out in the sun, lots of sweat, probably
should be replaced more often than every 5 years, because they are exposed to such hard use.

Be SURE to check this date of manufacture BEFORE purchase, so you are not buying an old helmet,
even if helmet has never been used. I am shocked by the age of some helmets being sold, found
one that was over 10 years old recently!! Folks looking thought they were buying bargins, not old stuff
that SHOULD have been thrown away!

Helmets should not be left in very hot places like cars or trailers, not allowed to freeze out in the
barn, also very hard on the things helmets are made of. You can reduce the protection to nothing
with poor treatment in a very short time.

Helmets should be comfortable when you wear them. International, Troxels, both have a twist-to-fit head
harness inside, to make the grip of fit comfortable. Helmet should fit snug, eyebrows go up and down when
helmet is rocked forward and back, without giving you a headache! Helmet should stay on when you
lean over, head upside down from the waist, even without chinstrap fastened. You should ALWAYS
use the chinstrap and have it fastened snugly so a bump or fall won't let the helmet come off your head.

Glad that Rocket was willing to be more cooperative today. She will "get it" in time, so you both have more
fun on rides.